07 Oct 2022 · 33 min read

Markus Levin on Geospatial Data, The MetaVerse and XYO Network | Ep. 167

In an exclusive interview with cryptonews.com, Markus Levin, Co-Founder of XYO Network, discusses how geospatial data and trustless oracles will shape the future of the metaverse. 

About Markus Levin

Markus Levin co-founded XYO Network in 2018, establishing it as the first people-powered decentralized project to connect data from the real physical world directly with blockchain smart contracts and other digital realities. Markus is a blockchain pioneer and an industry visionary regarded for his integral role in shaping the entrance and growth of oracle blockchain technology. He is also the Head of Operations of XY Labs. 

Markus has over 15 years of experience in building, managing, and scaling companies. After dropping out of his Ph.D. studies at Bocconi University, he began working with and leading companies in hyper-growth industries around the globe, including cutting-edge technology ventures such as Novacore, “sterkly”, Hive Media, and Koiyo. Markus mined his first Bitcoin in 2013 and has been captivated by blockchain technologies ever since.

Markus Levin gave a wide-ranging exclusive interview which you can see below, and we are happy for you to use for publication provided there is a credit to www.cryptonews.com. 

Highlights Of The Interview

  • The best metaverses will be copies of the real world using geospatial data and trustless oracles
  • How XYO Network uses 5 million nodes to verify information
  • The Metaverse will be affected by policymakers due to the prominence of crypto
  • In the next 5 years, wearable technology will render the metaverse accessible to anyone
  • There are two types of metaverses: open and closed. Open is ran on blockchain technology, whereas closed is ran on fiat money and owned by companies like Meta. 

 

 

Full Transcript Of The Interview

Matt Zahab 
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Cryptonews Podcast. We're buzzing as always, and our guest is coming hot out of South Western USA in beautiful San Diego, California. Today we have Markus Levin, the Co-founder of XYO Network and Head of Operations at XY Labs. Markus is a blockchain pioneer and an industry visionary regarded for his integral role shaping the entrance and growth of Oracle blockchain technology. Mark has co-founded XYO Network in 2018, establishing it as the first people powered decentralized project to connect data from the real physical world directly with Blockchain, smart contracts and other digital realities. Markus has also been quoted in leading mainstream and trade publications such as Yahoo Finance Google ranking rates, block works to name a few NASDAQ TV, and has done a whole lot as well as 15 years of experience in building managing and scaling companies while also snagging a PhD at Bocconi University. Without further ado I'm very pleased to welcome Markus Levin to the Cryptonews podcast. Markus, welcome to show my friend.

Markus Levin 
Hi, Matt, thanks for inviting me. I'm very excited to be on your show.

Matt Zahab 
Thank you, mate. Thank you, thank you pumped to have you on while doing some research and going over some shownotes stuff for you. There were many daunting words and subjects and topics that came up. I'm bit of a geo nerd myself. I perhaps nerd is the wrong word. Because I don't know a whole lot about it. I like to think I do but I don't. But one area that you are an expert in, and that only probably a handful of people on the planet are is the combination of geospatial data and trustless Oracle's and the Metaverse and tying all of those into one. I know it's a pretty bananas place to start. But I would love if you could tell me a little bit more about how geospatial data and trustless Oracle's are such a big part of the Metaverse.

Markus Levin 
Yeah, yeah, the best Metaverses, I think, will be the ones which are a copy of our real world, and then you expand upon them, right. And to be able to create a copy of our real world, you need to be able to understand it, right? Like, where is certain house versus a certain person, either it was a car as a shop or restaurant, you name it, and, and so, so location component of anything, is really, really important. I didn't even if you go back out of the Metaverse and go into the real world and say you speak about the restaurant, but you talk about the restaurant at a certain location, or you talk about the weather, right, you talk about the weather in Toronto, for example. And, and so location is basically the base layer two, which gives a lot of data meaning. And then on top of that, we build the XYO Network, which is basically a trustless Oracle, one of the only few which is trustless, which allows you to grab a lot of this data and then connect it with a smart contract or the Metaverse or other digital realities. And we do that by using a lot of contributors, like IOT devices and mobile phones. And we have a model 5 million nodes in the network. And these nodes basically connect that data and collect the data. And then we validate the verifiers next to our network. And then connect it was a smart contract, for example.

Matt Zahab 
So what kinds of points there Well, one that popped out at me 5 million nodes, XYO network has 5 million nodes. And these nodes work together to verify that the information that it's collecting is truthful to then verify that on the blockchain and pump that out to whatever application is being used for

Markus Levin 
That’s right. Yeah, so how it works is first Yeah, we have more than 500 nodes. We are really good at reaching people in the blockchain community as well as outside of it. Right in the beginning, we tried to go after IoT manufacturers like Comcast and SK Telecom and others. And we had like very interesting conversation there and wanted to build proof of concepts, but it's a one-two years, maybe some three years of conversations and then you know, Bill is a proof of concept, which is very costly for a smaller company like ours. And so we realized that to increase this As the network really in a very cost effective, efficient manner, we need to make it very accessible. So we build, for example, a mobile app called coin. Coin is an augmented reality app, which lets you earn rewards as you explore the world as part of our Oracle. And you can provide collect, for example, offline data from let's say, a restaurant, right? Like the opening hours, you take a picture of it and other parameters, and other people validate this same data, right? And then it gets, its gets put on top of the expired or network layer. So we know where the data got collected, and hardware generated. Who else was around it? Do you know this expert witnesses between devices device to cryptographic handshakes, so we can prove residue that came from right, and then as data gets handed off, let's say it gets put into IPFS. And then connect to smart contracts. These handoffs, we can basically prove with it, whether the data get handed off, got handed off, and then, you know, that way, you have a curve of origin for the data point, and you can audit.

Matt Zahab 
That's absolutely bananas. It legit insane. It makes sense, though, you explained it in a really good way that that truly does make sense, the importance of nodes and trustless Oracles in crypto is huge. I think you also just taught me a new term cryptographic handshakes. I don't think I've ever heard that before. Is that a Markus original? Or did? Or did you snag that from someone else?

Markus Levin 
It's a team original. Yes.

Matt Zahab
It's such a good term because it really just simplifies it. Because when you talk about crypto or cryptography, it's a very complex topic. Not a lot of people truly, truly grasp it. Myself included. I'm you know, I wouldn't say that I fully understand the whole ins and outs of it. But a handshake is so straightforward, right? It's an agreement per se, between two entities. And yeah, that's just such a good term. I absolutely love that.

Markus Levin 
Thank you so much. 

Matt Zahab 
That's, that's absolutely money. Let's take a step back. And we'll get into more nitty gritty on on XYO. But I want to go back to the geospatial data point for a second. Why is this so important when creating Metaverses I understand that you are part of the team that believes that Metaverses need to be more familiarized with real life? Right, they can't be so far fetched. And I told I'm on your team. Candidly, I agree with that. I think having a completely far fetched and sort of faux Metaverse doesn't really do the trick. I don't think it will quite thread the needle. I'm in your camp in regards to I think people need to be able to be like I can sort of touch and feel that I can sort of familiarize with that. How does geospatial data come into play there? Like walk me through sort of the nitty gritty, the technical aspects? Like are you pulling data from Google Maps? Where are you getting this data from? How are you using it? And how does it tie into perhaps some of the metaverses that we already know, like the Sandbox or Decentraland, or somnium space or NFT worlds?

Markus Levin 
It could be very ways that let's say you want to have a Metaverse party in your house for the winter holidays. And, so imagine you can like scan the room, right? And say, Okay, this is the room, this is my desk, this is my water glass and my set of everything that and then you invite your friends into your house, it's very, very intimate space, right? It's really the houses, there's a emotional connection to it. And everybody comes to your house and you have this winter holiday party. And it is these kinds of, I think emotional connections, which are important. And the only way for you to be able to connect this data like to say you scanned the room and to connect this geospatial data I did. It's your house, this place right and that you own that house. So there's a NFT component there, and that you will have the right to invite people into it. And you know, it's the measurements of us room, for example, that's geospatial as well. So it's not only the duplication of thing, but it's a measurement of things. So this is very critically important. For example, the t shirt you're wearing right now that it's that you own it right when you bought it, how much you paid for it, maybe that it's a limited edition, right? And then your avatar in the metaverse has the right to wear the same T shirt and then you like it can some fireworks and whatever fun stuff. Is it look at Nike forget the number now it was mind boggling amount how much revenue Nike made out of NFTs like sneaker NFTs. Right and the idea there is that everything you buy in the real world has additional value in the digital world. And then ditch So value will improve vastly increase the value of the reward item as well. And maybe you can even trade it separately, right? So you can keep your real world sneakers. But you can sell your digital sneakers, for example. And so it's a way to have additional value from additional things. And to prove all of this, you need location components for geolocation is the underlying is it base layer of other data, because it a lot, it will also tell you aware that data gets generated. And this can really prove that you are the owner or the tube, or it doesn't use something or where you are currently, when data gets generated, and so on. So you want to make absolutely sure that that data doesn't get spoofed to hat, right. So today, for example, it's very easy to just hold a GPS spoofing up, right. And you can pretend that you are in San Diego right now. We're actually in Toronto. And the problem for any second app on your phone like Uber or Yelp, or Amazon and so on. And but think about one of the future is smart cities and self driving cars and flying drones, all these things, you have to make sure that location certainly now think even one step further right or license a future where we have a $50 billion economy in the metaverse by 2030, as McKinsey said, right, and then they are showing dollar predictions after that. And so a lot of that value will come from the right real world items and the yields that generate and so you want to make absolutely sure that you have the geolocation component. 

Matt Zahab 
And it's very interesting, man that yeah, that's it fires me up here. Let's, let's jump into the metaverse for a second. Obviously, with the work you and your team are doing. You guys are big believers in the metaverse. Do you think that the present they metaverses are just in the passing trend? Do you think they'll lose hype? Do you think they're here to stay? How much they need to change? Give me sort of your you know, 612 and perhaps 24 plus months outlook on the metaverse as a whole?

Markus Levin
6 months is short. I think the next six months that not much is gonna change maybe my second berg is going to change his avatar in the next six months for the meta version of the metaverse. But I think in the next six months, you're going to have lots of discussion from policymakers in the crypto space, which will realize that there is this confluence of crypto and metaverse, they belong together, riser grabs free and the members belong together. And that in American, for example. If technology wants to be enabled, right, they need to enable Web3, I think and if they don't, then the open metaverse VC and like Decentraland or Clayton's Sandbox and so on our one view worldwide was our problem web3 regulation. So I think that's gonna happen in the next six months there. But for the next 1224 months, or five years, I think the metaverse will become more and more accessible. And right now you'll have to mostly on your phone or on your computer, right if you like the headset, and you can access the metaverse, but the future will the release some of the metaverses I think, and they will be augmented reality metaverse so they will be overlaid over the real world. Something like Google Glass, right? And then there are the fully immersive Metaverses like that the thing a lot of the companies I just mentioned are planning and Meta as well. And they might cooperate in the opening metaverses, and accessibility is key there. And then the content is of course key, like just imagine a world where you don't need to pay for university anymore, right? So you just put your headset on, right? Everybody goes to class, it doesn't matter if you're in San Diego right now or in Toronto or in Addis Ababa, or wherever in the world. Do go to your class in Harvard and university especially free, right? How much equals about can become and I think the metaverse is a lot about that try to provide equal access to anyone doesn't matter your status or your wealth. I think that's where whereas it metaverse will end up at least in the open metaverses light at the bottom. This one's you know Meta is probably gonna be a close metaverse. Right? So then monies is access there. But in the open ones, I think access will be much more equal. 

Matt Zahab 
So you think there will be two types of metaverses to sort of summarize your point there, there will be the open ones, which will be powered by blockchain tech, and there'll be closed ones, which will be powered by realistically fiat. And that will be sort of the ALA Meta.

Markus Levin 
Yes. Yeah, I think for those for the fiat part of it is sort of different ones who matter, which seems to be close to close one then empty game. So I want to build an open one unity, I think open one Microsoft probably close to ones, you know, everyone wants to be part of it, because it's gonna be such a huge amount of value and money involved there. Probably, the future of communication is going to be in the metaverse, right. And if you think about it, augmented reality metaverse, but I think the ultimate ones will allow anyone within to connect to them doesn't matter as your university or as you are 24/7. nightclub, you know, and nobody is going to be censored. It's going to be your way that you participate in, in the real world there. And the close ones, you have to play by Meta’s rules, for example, as we have to use the payment processors if they can take 30% of your revenue or whatever it is these kinds of rules, right. So I think the, the open ones will win there.

Matt Zahab 
Should we be worried about Meta like, candidly, I haven't. I haven't checked in on what Saki baby and Meta and the team are doing in quite some time. I want to say almost a year since I believe the announcement came out. I know they haven't done a whole lot. To my knowledge. I'm sure they've done a shitload behind the scenes but forward facing, they're really consumer facing they haven't done a whole lot. They haven't released a whole lot. Do you think they can be the number one? metaverse? Do you think they have the potential to be the front runner. Obviously, they have the user base, right? They have billions of people they could convert with a switch with Facebook, and Instagram. But do they have a chance at doing this? Or is it going to be you know someone like a unity or an epic or will it be a sandbox? Or will it be someone that we haven't even heard of? 

Markus Levin 
I can't? I don't know. Yeah, I'm very excited about what Meta is doing. And I know many people who are listening from the blockchain community. They want don't want me to say that, but

Matt Zahab 
They don't want you to succeed.

Markus Levin   
They spend $10 billion a year right now to build Metaverse, right? Everybody says they were building the metaverse before five when Meta, when Facebook changed its name to Meta. Suddenly everybody rushes to the fences and they are worried. They're losing out. So now you have like 10s of 1000s of open job positions. Suddenly Metaverse related, right. Everybody's investing into the metaverse and I think what Meta is doing is telling everyone the metaverse is important, you changed our name, you better pay attention to it as well. And I think what's happening there is it's creating such competition for Meta. And that's awesome. You know, I think it enables all these other companies to say, yes, we are here now give us money, VC and let's go to the races. And I think they might have made a mistake in choosing the name and taking the Meta part outside of the, like mostly type of labs environment, because suddenly, you know, everybody wants to compete. And so I think they're going to create incredible innovation themselves. They're going to create some incredible metaverse engineers and so on. So those people are going to leave the companies in terms of innovation is going to go to other companies. And I think it's going to enable the open Metaverse as well. And so I think the more competition, the better, and it will also allow the open Metaverse is where I'm more a fan of you know, like, like Clayton and Decentraland and so on those ones to succeed more to have like a higher likelihood of succeeding.

Matt Zahab 
You don't bet against Meta though, like that's historically been an absolutely horrendous bet, you know, and again, they have so just the plethora of resources is absolutely absurd, an infinite amount of talent resources, money, power, leverage, you know, regulatory policy, you know, like that they literally have everything they need, they have all the tools more so than anyone else to my knowledge. Are we going to see some backdoor parade from Apple or Microsoft or any other this sort of thing companies that could come in and awareness and dabble in the space? 

Markus Levin 
Yeah, definitely the there as you can get Apple is some room was ready to build that Apple glass right now. So an augmented reality glass might be released in 2024, which is entrance into the metaverse. Augmented reality is much more accessible. I think that a virtual reality headset, because this is much a reality headset do you need to sit on your sofa or at least stand in front of it with augmented reality, right you can overlay the real environment is aliens and digital development.

Matt Zahab   
So cool. And then one last thing on that that Tim Cook also said he said this is my last hurrah, this is my going away present. This is what I want to be remembered for. Then Tim Cook has been saying this for a while. So that's it. You know, if you're not going to bet against Facebook, the one company in the whole world who I would never ever bet against is Apple more so than Facebook. There's not a doubt in my mind, these glasses are going to be fucking incredible. You know what I mean? Like they're going to be so sweet. They're going to be two grand when they come out. It's apple slaves like me who have Apple everything. I'm gonna not even look twice. I'm gonna buy it right away. And I'm sure you will too. But sorry to interrupt just had to get that point across. I cannot I can't wait for this to come out. The thing that really intrigues me on top of the hardware is what software are they going to add on to this? Are they going? Is this going to be sort of the hardware for the metaverse similar to sort of what Apple has done right now with sort of hardware for the Internet hardware for communication, whatever, you know, I can't live without my Macbook or my phone more of my phone more than anything else. I'll never go team Android. But will Apple also create some software? Are they working on an actual sort of legit Metaverse that, you know, like a sandbox or decentralized? That's what I'd love to know.

Markus Levin 
Yeah, yeah. And the interesting thing is that Apple is an incredibly close ecosystem, right? So you have to get everything. So the iTunes store, right? You use their operating system. And they take 30% of any abscess. Hell I did and ongoing subscriptions and so on. As you know, like, there was this Fortnite and Apple like fight about the 30% it took. So if Apple creates a Metaverse, you know, will it be as closed off? And that would not be as ideal I think if it builds a best hardware, right and but then that hardware kind of access the rest of the metaverses or will they create a super amazing hardware, and then have some gateway which allows you to connect to the sandbox and France? And I think that is a important question. But I think even by the hardware existing and the hardware successfully selling, why they will then entice other companies to create their own super amazing hardware, which then might be more open and also creates awareness. A lot of it is education, ideas, or if people see other people using an Apple type glass 5x Going into Apple type. Metaverse, you know, then that creates awareness they wanted to and neighbors and visit some of the others as well.

Matt Zahab 
Very good point there. Markus, we're gonna take a quick break and give a massive shout-out to our sponsor the show and this PrimeXBT I love PrimeXBT been using for a hot minute now, as they offer a robust trading system for both beginners and professional traders doesn't matter if you're a rookie or a vet. You can easily design and customize your layouts and widgets to best fit your trading style. PrimeXBT also running an exclusive promotion for listeners of the Cryptonews podcast. You can use the promo code CRYPTONEWS50, that is CRYPTONEWS50 all one word to take advantage and receive 50% of your deposit credited to your trading account. Again, that is CRYPTONEWS50 to receive 50% of your deposit credited to your trading account. And now back to the show with Markus. Markus, we've been buzzing on the metaverse couple more questions and then we will wrap up on this regard and we'll get back into XYO. Any hot takes. Metaverse hot takes that only perhaps Markus believes in that no one else does. Something very rare, very out of right field that might turn a couple of heads or create a lovely soundbite.

Markus Levin 
I think people wonder if the metaverse will be the next internet. And I think it will be much more than that. It will be our next lives. You know where everything gets connected you are more aware of your world and you have so much more world to explore. And I think it's gonna be just mind boggling.

Matt Zahab  
You got to keep going on that you can't give me such a spicy take and then cut it short you think? Do you think the metaverse will be more than the internet more important than the internet will impact us more than the internet it will be our next lives. give me examples here give me can you sound like in touch and feel?

Markus Levin 
Yeah, you can visit any places in the world. You can go to any university I mentioned before you can touch anyone's hand and do can be at any riot you want to be you can demonstrate and bring democracy around the world anywhere you want to be right now, let's say you want to be in Iran was the kind of brave people demonstrating there right now. Or in other places in the world, you can support and show democracy, for example, how are, let's say you were into the Queen, right? It could be as a funeral, like just a few weeks ago. And you're more connected to the world with the magic words, and it gives you a much broader ability to connect with worlds in just your own backyard. And I think that is going to open our minds and going to reduce things like racism, for example, where, you know, racism often comes from you knew know your community, right? You know that people within it all look like you. And they'll talk like you, and they'll have some experience to you, right. And so everything outside of it is, is scattered, for example. And those things can breed racism, but if you're connected was in a world, right? It doesn't matter if you're talking with someone from Ethiopia, from Norway, or from Ukraine, or from Brazil, or from the United States, and everybody comes together all the time, I think it's going to reduce prejudices and racism and those kinds of analysis. Humanity is haunted by and it's going to change. This how the world just got to work.

Matt Zahab 
I love that. That will be some exciting stuff. I think you brought up a lot of really good points there going to Queens funeral, that would have been very cool, you know, taking part in democratic events, not democratic. But you know, in different democracies around the world be very cool as well. I'm a big sports guy being at you know, a Champions League game, which is I believe, on as you and I recording, that would be a treat as well, yeah, there'd be so many really cool things, I can't wait, it's gonna be a lot of fun. The one thing that scares the shit out of me is a bit of a traditionalist in life. And, yes, there are probably more positive than negative impacts in regards to how technology has affected our lives so far, but I'm worried that we will just become robots and zombies. And tech will just run our show more so than it does today. Right. And again, you have to look at the trade offs, I can be at a Champions League game, while in Toronto, no such thing as a Champions League game in Toronto. But on the flip side, I will be more of a slave to tech, and I will not be present and living in the moment. You know what I mean? Like there's, I am worried about the negative implications that AR and VR could have on society.

Markus Levin 
Yeah, I think you're right. But then I think I can be traditional as well, I do. I'm very family focused, and so on. I'm outdoors a lot. And then I have my family and it's all around the world, right? I'd love to sit with them in my living room and play Settlers of Catan wisdom, right? Yeah. My mom's there, my sisters and cousins, nephews and nieces. And definitely awesome. You know, that would be super traditional, but it would be only enabled because of the metaverse right now. You know, I call them and FaceTime and so on, but it, it doesn't feel as natural as sitting with them and having a conversation on my sofa, you know, and I think, even as a traditionalist, I think that works. I think the problems are addictions, you know, where you can't disconnect from yourself, not I don't know how to solve that, you know, that's gonna happen. But I think even as the traditionalists, you know, there's so much to embrace there.

Matt Zahab
The other very scary thing is the whole porn aspect, where there's already a huge downfall of, you know, people I'm 27 people younger than me not having as much sex as people my age and older, right that the quantity of sex has gone down, it continues to go down every single year, which isn't good. Obviously, Musk is a very big advocate of having kids and an increase in the population for obvious reasons. I totally get where he's coming from. But going back to the whole sex thing, it's like you shouldn't be able to, in my opinion, one I don't think porn is good for society as a whole, but to like VR and AR porn that is going to be horrendous for society. When you can have your version, right everyone has different tastes your version of a perfect girl or boy in front of you like that. That's just that is so bad. I think that I think of all things Metaverse related. I think that will be the worst thing that happens, where not even just young people but full us grown men and women will be you know, will be playing with themselves nonstop to They're perfect. You know what I mean? It's gonna be fucked up.

Markus Levin 
My little population issues, you know, but then the traditionalist like and me, which like real people, and you're gonna rule the wrong. Yeah, but I think it can lead to problems. But then society if you look at the metoo movement, for example, right, how much that has changed perception of like Victoria's Secret, for example, right? It was all these, like, Victoria's Secret Angels model, right? And now this company is struggling right?

Matt Zahab
100%.

Markus Levin
And their advertising is now more like inclusive, buddy Affirmative, right? Doesn't matter what body type, you have your beautiful, and I think this society understands why you still have access to whatever point you want to watch, right? Whatever models you want to look at, and so on. But our understanding a society is that this is acceptable behavior, right? And our thinking changes, and I think similar things can happen there as well as like Metaverse type porn, right? It's like okay, this is behavior which is desired and or which society wants and others I'm not and I think it's conversations you're going to have about this item and then you find ways to protect people and that’s all.

Matt Zahab 
Like one thing I will say Mark this and you can clip this whoever's listening clip the shit out of this I'm gonna go off the rails here. This will fuck millions of people up you heard it here and again, this isn't a me only take a lot of people are saying this. But I wholeheartedly believe that AR and VR porn will not just slightly but will royally fuck the minds of hundreds of millions of people. It will be. Well 10 years down the road. We will look back at this. I'll be pumping this clip out. You know, hopefully the Cryptonews podcast is still buzzing but I'm gonna pump this clip out. I'm blasted everywhere. And yeah, that's just we're going off the rails here anyways, but yes. In summation, the metaverse will be 98% positive and 2% negative and whatever. You can get those kinds of metrics you run with it. So Markus and I for the metaverse, let's jump back into XYO, how are you guys directly or indirectly working on building the metaverse because you guys are very, very intertwined. You go on their website. Metaverse pops up all over the place. You have many different you know, your hands are in many different cookie jars, coins, protocols, obviously the geospatial data so on and so forth. 5 million plus nodes. Tell me about how you and the XYO team are building the metaverse. 

Markus Levin 
Yeah, it's, it's all about connectivity. So the metaverse is not useful without has limited use with all this data connectivity like to rebuild data or from other digital realities. We create this data connectivity in a trustless way by like, that is right now, I'm not aware of another project to enrich creates trustless data in the way we do. Like if they create data, right? Then it comes from let's say, a website or something like that. So it's not trustless. And we be made sure that the data you will see all the things you will see and experience in the metaverse are real. In a way.

Matt Zahab 
Tell me about some of XYO’s most recent developments. What do you guys have on the horizon? What is next on the timeline? And on the roadmap? What do we as consumers have to look forward to? And a follow up to that is, how can the average Joe or Josephine get involved? I know you guys have a coin, tell me about how you know, the average person can support or contribute to the XYO ecosystem? 

Markus Levin 
Yeah, so we have just released XYO 2.0. Which makes our legal system faster, more reliable, but most of all more accessible, right? So you can connect to us through smart contracts. But now you can do it also through API's it's on. So as a developer for many traditional company, even you can connect with what we do. And we are now continuing to build out our XYO 2.0. toolkit. And regarding the involvement, yeah, of course, you know, we have our token sale, which powers the expo network. And then the easiest part also to contribute is, by now download the coin app and become part of the node so I didn't earn XYO by contributing data because this wonderful new world of the future and an exchange, you know, you earn tokens and so on and you have it The question is how can new people get involved as we estimated about 80% of our new users are non crypto people, but 95% of them cash out XYO. So we bring, yeah, we bring a lot of new people enter the crypto ecosystem. And that's, I think what it's about. So that's a great way to contribute it, then there's a token of course, and then we love developers and you know, everything we do is open source, so people who develop in and around our ecosystem, we have a $20 million ecosystem fund in partnership with outliers fun so if you think you have a project that you want to build on XYO or chooses XYO tech or you think fits somehow in our ecosystem, then reach out and maybe we can help you not only with your tech but also self-funding.

Matt Zahab 
I love that Markus What a treat of an episode man you taught me a ton and I learned a hell of a lot really appreciate you coming on before we let you go can you please let our listeners know where they can find you and XYO online and on socials. 

Markus Levin 
For me it’s a little difficult I believe everything XYO is my voice is in X Files just follow XYO on Twitter and Instagram, Discord and wherever you find other crypto projects as well. 

Matt Zahab  
Amazing. Markus, thank you so much mate. Really appreciate it. Next time I'm out in Cali I will not next time never been to Cali when I do go to Cali I will hit you up I would love to have a bite to eat with you get to know you in person. Yeah, what a treat man really appreciate you coming on and wishing you the team all the best and can't wait for round 2. 

Markus Levin 
Thank you, likewise. It was awesome to be on the show man. Thank you. 

Matt Zahab 
Folks, what an episode with Markus Levin from XYO drop knowledge bombs left right and center geospatial data trustless Oracle's nodes up the ying yang over 5 million of them. XYO Network and a whole lot of Metaverse absolutely love to see it. I had a blast and I hope you had a blast listening. If you did, please do subscribe. It would mean the world to my team and I speak into the team love you guys. Justas, sound editor from the clouds from the heavens you are the GOAT appreciate you and all the listeners love you guys. Keep on growing those bags and keep on staying healthy, wealthy and happy. Bye for now and we'll talk soon.