26 Oct 2022 · 33 min read

Collin O’Brien on a Multiple Blockchain Future and Cross-Chain Swaps | Ep. 171

In an exclusive interview with cryptonews.com, Collin O’Brien, Head of Marketing at Rubic, talks about the future of blockchain technology, cross-chain swaps, and interoperability.

About Collin O'Brien

Collin O’Brien is the Head of Marketing at Rubic, a leading cross-chain swap service that allows users to swap assets between major blockchains in one click and with the lowest gas fees.

Collin has 15+ years of experience in marketing and sales in multiple industries, including crypto, tech, real estate, and medical equipment. He has been a crypto investor for 5+ years and almost bought 1,000+ BTC in early 2011! He also was an investor in Rubic before becoming a team member.

Collin O’Brien gave a wide-ranging exclusive interview which you can see below, and we are happy for you to use it for publication provided there is a credit to www.cryptonews.com. 

Highlights Of The Interview

  • Multiple blockchain future - why will there be many blockchains?
  • Cross-Chain - what is the importance of having the ability to move value between blockchains?
  • The importance of Software Development Kits (SDK).
  • Applications being the catalyst for crypto mass adoption.
  • Almost buying 1,000+ BTC in early 2011 - learn to trust your gut.

 

 

 

 

Full Transcript Of The Interview

Matt Zahab 
Ladies and gentlemen welcome back to the Cryptonews Podcast. We're buzzing as always fired up to have Collin O'Brien on the show today the Head of Marketing at Rubic, a leading cross-chain swaps service that allows users to swap assets between major blockchains in one click and with the lowest gas fees. Collin has 15 plus years experience in marketing and sales in multiple industries, including crypto tech, real estate and medical equipment Big Pharma baby. He has been a crypto investor for five plus years and as almost bought 1000+ Bitcoin in early 2011. Can't wait to get into that story. He was also an investor in Rubic before becoming a team member. Without further ado, I'm very pleased to welcome Collin O'Brien to the Cryptonews podcast. Collin, welcome to the show, my friend.

Collin O’Brien
Thank you, Matt. It's a pleasure to be here.

Matt Zahab
Fired up to have you on. You look great as well. I love when a guest comes on fully decked out in their company logo company uni. I gotta get some more Cryptonews stuff going for the Cryptonews pod, but it is what it is. Let's start with the obvious. You almost bought 1000+ Bitcoin back in 2011. This would have made you a very rich man, you would be dancing and romancing what happened? Why didn't you do it? I can't wait to get into this.

Collin O'Brien 
Oh, geez. Well, you know, you're a little younger, you're a little more naive. You don't have that world experience your listening to people more as opposed to listening to yourself and trusting your own instincts. And that's kind of the trope that I fell into. In that regard. I asked everyone around me, hey, this sounds like it might be a good idea. What do you think? And obviously, people are just, they didn't really do any research, even though I had and a lot of people were telling me I You're just wasting your money, there's been other coins that have come out. And, you know, it's you might as well buy gold or silver or just invest in the stock market? And you know, you'd just be wasting a couple $1,000 Because at the time it was $1.79 a Bitcoin. And it's just it's one of those things. I mean, that's life, right? I don't regret any of that, though. Because I wouldn't have gone down the path that I've gone down, I wouldn't have met my wife wouldn't have my kids. So you know, no, no regrets on that, but definitely would have been a much different course in direction for my life. That's assuming I would have held on to it right, it would have been really hard for me to hold on to those 1000 Bitcoin, when it hit $1,000 For the first time, right? Being a being a kid in my 20s. Basically.

Matt Zahab 
I’d say the exact same thing calling a fight when people ask me Oh, if you know, what about 1000? In 2011? There's zero chance I wouldn't have sold probably most of them. You know what I mean? Like it just would have happened? I would have thought that it'd be at 20k Right now, probably not. And when you have, you know, an almost 1000 bagger, how do you not take profit? So very, very tough. How close? Are you to actually pulling the trigger? Did you And mind you, there were no exchanges back then? Were you, you know, on some greasy dark net site, Mount Gox, whatever the case may be locked and loaded finger on the trigger. How did that go?

Collin O'Brien 
Ah, no, I mean, there was like the local bitcoins and stuff back then even like you could go on Craigslist, or, you know, some like local meetups like local websites and meet somebody in a parking lot and do kind of like a shady deal. And you're paying a premium when you do that, you know, when Bitcoin was like $2, you'd be paying somebody like $5, right for the just the convenience of being able to take care of it in person. So I mean, as pretty close. But I had enough people that were in my inner circle convinced me that it's it wasn't worth it. So I have since learned to trust my instincts. And that's how I ended up investing in Rubic. And that's why I'm here today talking to you.

Matt Zahab 
The gut is a very weird thing. And so many of the greatest philosophers ever have often said like, that is your moral compass. It's not your brain, it's not your heart. It's your gut. When your gut is telling you to do something, you got to roll with it. You got to rock with it. Do any other crazy gut stories where your gut had this intuition and it was right all along but you weren't against it.

Collin O'Brien 
Oh man. I would say it's nothing I think is solitary is that in terms of like, have such a drastic course in life direction for me. But after the success of Bitcoin and after, you know, seeing it hit $1,000 and then kind of feeling down on myself because I didn't do it and stuff like that. It did kind of dictate how I approached all the decisions in my life. From, you know, social friendships and interactions with people and his career pursuits and you know all just it. Yeah, I guess if you if you take it as such right you have to learn from things that happen to you in life, a lot of people just kind of aimlessly bounce from thing to thing. Without really learning from stuff that's happened to them. I guess the most important thing would be I implemented that kind of philosophy to kind of govern the rest of my life to just trust my instincts more. And it's led me to a place where I'm extremely happy. And by, you know, beautiful, beautiful family. And, yeah, I wouldn't change any decisions I've made at all because of that.

Matt Zahab 
So love that little life lessons there. You love to see it. Let's get into Rubic. So before you joined as a team member, you are an investor. Why did you decide to invest in Rubic? How long ago was this? How early in the company was this? Give me the whole deets give me the download on what happened in this regard?

Collin O'Brien 
Absolutely. So it was late 20, like December of 2020, early 2021. And I saw somebody mentioned something about Rubic. And I saw what they had originally said they were looking to do cross chain swaps. And, you know, for a while, like I thought that the industry was going to be a multi chain future, right where just based on logic alone, some chains are going to excel in certain functions more than others. As such, there will be different environments in which applications are built, right. And the strengths and weaknesses of those chains are going to attract certain applications. After just kind of wrapping my head around what web3 really is, which is just web2, but decentralized, right, there's no more server centers, things are distributed across the network across devices all around the world, as opposed to centralized in servers, centers, you know, in very solitary locations. I saw that, you know, those the app environment, right, because it's going to exist in these different networks, there needs to be someone out there that's facilitating a value transfer data and value transfer between those networks so that these apps can interoperate seamlessly. So upon kind of realizing that, that I saw that as a logical evolution in the industry, that companies that are focusing on that now before anyone's even really talking about it, are going to be the ones that have that first mover advantage. And so I started digging into it. I really liked what I saw, I liked what I saw from the team. And so I started engaging myself in the community, really, you know, helping new people who were coming in understand what it is that they were doing, kind of espousing my opinions about what I thought would happen in the industry. And the team reached out to me and said, Hey, would you like to maybe come on board and do a little bit of marketing or PR stuff for us. And I obliged after meeting the founders of Vladimir Tikhomirov and Alexandra Korneva. I was very impressed. They seemed like very well to do people who were very smart and hard workers and ambitious, they laid out their vision for what they wanted to see out of this thing that they were building. And I was bought in right away. And so I jumped on board, it was about May of 21. And here we are October of 22. And I'm doing PR work for them. I do a podcast every Friday. And come on podcasts like this to spread the word about what it is that they're building. I think what they are doing right now and the pivots that they've been able to adjust and make because any startup is going to need to pivot to adjust to emerging market conditions, emerging trends and whatever industry they're in. They've done a fantastic job of that. And you know, where the business and where the project is heading now, I think is spectacular. And I think that someone needs to do what it is that they're doing. And I believe that they are the ones that are going to be able to do it.

Matt Zahab 
I love that what a story I've seen so many sort of early adopters of a product become very important. Team members who are compensated more than fairly who have you know, small parts of equity in the company. I just I absolutely love to see that. That's so good. Congrats on that. 

Collin O’Brien
Thank you. 

Matt Zahab
Let's buys on the topic of a multiple blockchain future last year, one of the trendiest words in all of crypto was interoperability. I'm a big fan of it. I think cross-chains are incredibly important. Obviously SDKs are massive. Let's stick with a just blockchain future right now and multiple blockchain future. Why will there be so many blockchains? And how does this tie in to Rubic Ethos?

Collin O'Brien 
It's tough to I mean, it's anyone's best guess on how many actual blockchains they're going to be in the future. I'm of the opinion that there in any system, there's usually two major competing projects, right, like two major competing companies, and then a distant third, right? So, so perfect example would be looking at like the soda industry, you have Coca-Cola, Pepsi, and then you have all those, you know, third-party companies distant, yes. It's, it's no, not too dissimilar. If you look around at all different types of industries, right. So keeping that in mind, we have logical systems for these different blockchains, some of them are faster to finality. And they can process 1000s 10s of 1000s of transactions per second, that is good for something like a payment processing system, or something like GameFi, where you need to have tons of little interactions with the network, across, you know, millions and millions of users around the world every single second. So that's something that is going to attract applications that require it to be fast, then you will have different networks that have bigger block sizes, right, they're able to store more information per block, they don't necessarily need to be as quick, but they're able to hold more data, and they're able to do so in a more efficient manner. So those will attract things like the photo clouds, right like Google Cloud, Apple cloud, where people are storing files, sharing files with other people. And then you're going to have different blockchain networks that excel at a store of value, right? Like Bitcoin, for example, right, it's acting as a amazing store of value, I think you'll have different blockchains that focus a little more on privacy where they may be slightly centralized. But that would be handled more for sensitive government information, public files, like DMV files, for example, right? You don't want that exposed and out in the open. So there will need to be some level of security and some level of obfuscation to the data that's on that chain. Right. So I think it's important to realize that, yes, there will be multiple different environments that are attracting these different applications. And for those different blockchains that excel in different areas of you know, just logic and how they technically perform, you'll have you know, two major blockchains that are vying for the top spot, and then you'll have that distant third, and then, you know, those will vary based on geographic location, culture, language, you know, sometimes it's as simple as an application itself, being or existing inside that ecosystem. For it to become popular. A perfect example I like to use is, before Facebook, there was MySpace, there was Friendster there was melodramatic, there were all these different social networking sites that were very similar to Facebook. But Facebook had that like, cool factor, it had that wow factor, right? They focused on that one thing, relationships that were huge. But then, along came Farmville and people who would have never downloaded Facebook and gotten involved with that, heard their friends talking about it, and they downloaded it, and then they started playing it, they became addicted. Now they're in that ecosystem. Now they're Facebook users. Right? So that was that killer application that really draws mass adoption, I think we're going to see that in different blockchains, we're going to see that killer app that everyone needs to download from the iOS store the Android store, to really start participating in that environment. And then it's just network effect after that.

Matt Zahab
Right, great.

Collin O’Brien
So I definitely think we're going to see a reduction in the number of blockchains that we have now, as they, you know, kind of fizzle out over the next 510 years. As more and more people are drawn to one blockchain or another. It'll just consolidate and aggregate all of all the users right. And so I think it'll become pretty apparent who's going to be the top dogs in these different niche spaces of blockchain and the apps that they're able to attract. But there's definitely going to be I would say, you know, double digits in terms of major blockchains that have robust app environments. So anywhere from you know, 10 to 20, would be my guess, like a dozen to two dozen. And having those different blockchains having those different app environments, there needs to be a business. And this is where Rubic comes into play. There needs to be a business that is handling the interoperability of all of that right. Now, there are some messaging services, you know, sellers working on that there's a number of Inermis interchain messaging framework where they can send requests to the different networks so that they can, you know, either fetch or send data to a different blockchain to a different application to perform an action or some function.

 

Matt Zahab 
It's nightmare fuel right now, though, like when I want to do something that's extremely cross-chain, jumping multiple chains, or even just one-to-one. It's often multiple decentralized exchanges, multiple protocols, bridges, you know, researching new bridges, Is this safe? Looking at what reputable people in the space back this to they have their cert tech audit, like it's an absolute shitshow. So being able to switch and most time, most of the time is just coins. But being able to switch coin from chain to chain without using, you know, a wood that doesn't have a direct trading pair can be an absolute task and a half. For the listeners at home, would you mind just giving me a quick example? Or I guess I could do but you're definitely better than I am at it. Can you just give an example of a classic sort of shitshow swap? That would take a normal process, and then how much easier it would be on your platform?

Collin O'Brien 
Certainly. So if I have a token on Ethereum, right, let's say I have a chain link. So I have linked on Ethereum. And I want to purchase Trader Joe, on the Avalanche network, which is their, you know, decentralized exchange, I would have to first identify a bridge between the Ethereum network in the Avalanche network and see what tokens that they have that can operate across that bridge. Now most of the time, it's going to be either a wrapped version of a native token, like Ethereum or a AVAX. Or it's going to be a stablecoin, or, you know, a handful of different coins that they just happen to have a lot of liquidity on both networks, and they're able to make that transfer. After I've identified that bridge, I now need to go to a decentralized exchange on Ethereum. Use ether to process that transaction, trade it into the token, take that token, go to the bridge, transfer it across the bridge paying another fee to in another transaction. Now I have a token on whatever token that may be that I bridged over the Avalanche well now I need to buy Trader Joe now I need to use another decentralized exchange to take that token that is bridge and then purchase Joe but now I need to Avalanche now I need AVAX to be able to even purchase that. So how do I get that? Well, now I need to go back to Ethereum I need to bridge something into AVAX to even have gas to be able to perform that function. Now I can finally trade and get you even for the most experienced of traders, people who've been in this industry for you know, five, six years in earnest trading since 2016 2017. Find that process tedious, arduous, complicated, confusing, riddled with anxiety, right? Like, am I connecting my wallet to something that's really shady as my wallet gonna get drained of tokens? Like, am I going to screw something up in it? Certainly am I going to make a Monday detail error, right? There's so many things that actually go wrong. And then you've spent 2030 4050 an hour doing this right like so. Now the prices have fluctuated, and now you're gonna get less value because things are all over the place. It's a nightmare. Like you said it's an absolute nightmare. So Rubic, in contrast, I have link. So if I go to Rubic, or anybody that is integrated, or SDK, or anyone that has their our widget on their website, they just take their link, right? They connect their wallet, they say, Hey, I want Joe so they have link on the Ethereum network, they select the Avalanche network, they select the Joe token. They click swap the confirm it. Now they have Joe. There, you don't need the destination networks token were paying the gas fee essentially for once you get to the Avalanche network to get that Trader Joe, we're charging you and your source network where you already have the native token to process it so you have the liquidity to make that work. It really is just one click and now I've gone from the token that I have to the token that I want. 

Matt Zahab
And it lives in your Rubic wallet?

Collin O’Brien
Well Rubic doesn't have their own wallet, we have a number of different wallets that can connect to the platform and we actually also have included the wallet connect suite which has like I think it's like four dozen wallets now. Or maybe it's five dozen or six dozen wallets. So pretty much every major wallet that's out there. We Support Metamask, Coinbase, you know, it's pretty extensive. So really whatever wallet you're comfortable using is what you can use on the platform.

Matt Zahab 
Absolutely love it, folks, we're gonna take quick break and give a massive shout-out to our sponsor the show and that is PrimeXBT. I've been using PrimeXBT for a hot minute. And I absolutely love these guys as they offer a robust trading system for both beginners and professional traders. It doesn't matter if you're a rookie or that you can easily design and customize your layouts and widgets to best fit your trading style. PrimeXBT also running an exclusive promotion for listeners of the Cryptonews podcast, use the promo code CRYPTONEWS50, that is CRYPTONEWS50. All one word to receive 50% of your deposit credited to your trading account. Again, that is CRYPTONEWS50, CRYPTONEWS50. All one word, to receive 50% of your deposit credited to your trading account. And now back to the show with Collin. Collin, let's talk about cross-chain a little more about cross-chain for a second here. The importance of having the ability to move value between blockchains is absolutely huge. It's something that must happen in order for crypto to go mainstream. Can you talk about the ins and outs of this process? And we talked about sort of the shitshow, we you gave a really good example of the tedious process from converting coin to coin very often you don't have that trading pair. But on sort of the nontrading aspect, what is the importance of having the ability to move value between blockchains?

Collin O'Brien 
So I'll give a real-world example. Because this is something that I really foresee being the case 5-10 years from now when we have hit mass adoption, when the majority of people are using crypto as an actual currency to pay for goods and services. So I go out to lunch with a friend. Right? And, you know, I pay for lunch, right? And he wants to reimburse me. So he uses an app like Venmo? Well, maybe Venmo has their app on Polygon in the future. So he pays me through Venmo, I've got that $30 credit. Now I want to I go home and you know, wife's telling me, hey, you know, we need more milk from the grocery store. We also need this, we need that, well, it's getting late, I don't want to let you leave the family. So I'm going to use one of those, you know, at any one of the apps that you would use to purchase groceries from the store and have it delivered to your doorstep, that app happens to be on Avalanche or Telos, for example. And now how do I get that value across from one blockchain network to another, I just want to use that value the same way I would if it was USD. And that's really easy today, right like, but it requires you to send it through your bank first, and then your bank, use your checking account from this other app to then pull that $30 back out of your bank. That centralized process is going away, right? And it is just one less step in the whole process. That's the whole point of web3, right? We're removing those middlemen, we're creating an environment that is permissionless, that is trustless, where I can operate one application to another and be certain that things are going to operate flawlessly and smoothly. So how do you get that value from one network to another, now I just want to use my apps, I don't want to do any complex processes. That's where Rubic’s SDK comes in. Because they realize like even by creating this system, where we're aggregating all the hard work of all this stuff that everyone in the industry is doing to be able to actually facilitate this value transfer. That even if they're going to one solitary location, like our website app, that Rubic.exchange, that is not conducive for mass adoption, right? People aren't going to want to do that every single time, they need to get value moved from one blockchain to another. So they've put together a software development kit that is free, it's white label, and does actually profit share it with the people who integrate it. So there's more incentive for other businesses out there to pick up our SDK. But what it enables is seamless cross-chain within their own application. So Venmo could integrate our SDK. And then they would be able to do all of that process on the back end. So the users not even worrying about it. And same goes for you know, whatever is GrubHub, or whatever else whatever other app, you know, we see a future where the Rubic SDK is a backbone for web3 applications were just by integrating it offers that native cross-chain functionality because users don't need to know how it works. They don't care how it works. They just want to be to use their applications, the transition from mass adoption of web2 to web3, should, the average person shouldn't even realize anything's happening. Other than that they're just connecting a wallet now, not too dissimilar from connecting their checking accounts from their bank. 

Matt Zahab
Yeah. 

Collin O’Brien
And that's really the only thing that should change in this whole process is is no more linking my bank account, and we're linking wells, or Bank of America or HSBC, or anything else. It's just, I have my crypto wallet, I control it, I control all the data, I control all the NFTs, I control all the actual value of all these tokens that are in that wallet. And now I can just use it in whatever applications I want. That's how it should be. That's the vision we see for the future of the industry. And we're hoping to help facilitate that future.

Matt Zahab 
I mean, that would be an absolute treat to have how, how far away are we from an interoperable blockchain future? That's actually easy to use? Because right now, it's not right now, there are very few again, you guys are one of the outliers, one of the Black Swans, but there are very few applications SDKs API's, if you well, that allows seamless, you know, UX and UI. How far out are we until, you know, a whole bunch of companies have a beautiful suite of products that allow web2 users to onboard themselves to web3.

Collin O'Brien 
Meet realistically, just based off of web2 development, how things progressed from the late 90s into the early 2000s, you know, a lot the.com boom was 1998 1999, early 2000. It took five years for us to get YouTube, it took four years from that point to get Facebook, it took nine years to get Twitter, right. So those are important things to keep in context, when we think about how this is going to develop, it's really easy to kind of overestimate the speed in which we are able to do all this and adoption will hit so realistically, I think we're at least three to five years away from that first application that really starts drawing people in you know, virally, even then there are a whole host of X factors that you know, it really depends upon those on how fast adoption can hit. I would say the biggest hurdle right now for crypto is on ramps right Fiat on ramps, how do I convert my US dollars, my euros my Yuan's into crypto, you're going through a centralized entity right now. And it's still a very gray area, there's no regulations, governments are still kind of on the fence with all of this stuff. So I believe that once governments around the world start issuing CBDCs in earnest, they start converting their fiat monetary system to this central bank, digital currency, this tokenized, fully digitized on blockchain currency, and make that process easy for people by empowering their nation's banks to be able to do that process with no fees. You know, hey, here's a one-time deal, we're going to let you take all the money in your bank account. And we are going to swap it into a CBDC. That's when we're going to see the mass adoption. And I really think it's only at that point because many your average person has trepidation for doing something in a gray area. People don't want to go to jail, people don't want to break the law. And I think that, you know, those fears will only be assuaged when they get full authority from the government to say, Hey, this is what's going to happen, this is how it's going to go. We're going to move this system over now. When that happens, I think adoption is going to hit so fast and so hard that those of us in the industry are going to struggle to keep up like we could prep for it all we want. But all of a sudden when you have millions of people onboarding every day, and now trying to figure out what they're going to do now that all this value has been injected into this new system. It's going to be a shock. It's gonna be a shock to the crypto industry, for sure. So I think that that is one of the biggest things that needs to happen first. And then I would say the second thing is, you know, the way that wallets are set up right now, the way that we have our encryption keys, it's usually like a 12-word, sequence or 24-word sequence to be able to recover your wallet, the seed phrase, right? It is. That's just the average person's not going to do that. They're going to lose it. The, you know, all sorts of things need to happen with regards to digital IDs, right? If I want to access my stuff, I'm going to need to use my thumbprint and facial recognition on my phone. Or you know, some way of validate that, if I'm just using a desktop or a laptop, the same way, you know, it'll send you a text message today, right, you got to put in the pin, that they text you for the two-factor authentication. But that whole process needs to become a lot easier for the average person for people to feel comfortable jumping into this space as well. Right? Again, it can't be too dissimilar from utilizing and linking your bank accounts today, which again, is usually done with a biometric signature these days, they ask for your thumbprint, you type in a password, they text you a pin, you put in the pin, boom, you're done. As soon as crypto gets to that point, too, I think we'll start seeing mass adoption. And then once that happens, you know, it's really about the app environments, right. And that's what's going to facilitate that cross chain is people just needing to move value and move data from one application to another. And that will be done across different blockchain networks just because of the logical systems of some being better and excelling for certain apps than others. 

Matt Zahab   
Those are great spiels. I love your examples that you give, especially with sort of the analogy and the kinship to people getting Facebook strictly because of Farmville. I used to love Farmville, that was one of the gaudiest games of all time, that was way too much fun. You know, I, my whole hockey team played Farmville. It was like all we talked about my buddies at school was an absolute treat, share up Farmville. And then another great way, you know, that you mentioned, was just sort of how people will download. And people will onboard themselves onto crypto because of applications that are being built, which you don't really think about too often. So I'd love these to have any more of these for me, where you know, there's a very perhaps complex topic or reasoning or ideology about something doesn't have to be crypto-related. And you have just such a very simple analogy for it. I know it's a tough question. I'm putting you in the hot seat here. But do you have any more of those?

Collin O'Brien
Don't. You know, I actually I do I have one for you. And it's I kept this one on my sleeve. So people have asked me, you know, what is it that Rubic actually does? Why do you guys exist? How does it really work? Okay, because I don't understand blockchain. Just give it to me in layman's terms. So I have token a, I want token B, I'm at destination a, I want to go to destination B. So think of Apple Maps, Google Maps, any map system that we have right now. They're going to present you multiple routes on how to get there, they're going to show you the fastest way, they're going to show you the way that spends the least amount of gas. You know, it's going to show you all the different tolls and things like that. And ultimately, you can choose and decide what which route you want to take. Rubic has a very similar approach between getting new token a token B. The work that goes into all these different projects that Rubic is aggregating that we're leveraging is more than any one team can handle, especially when you start putting it all together. You know, we got 21 blockchains, we have over 60, decentralized exchanges, we have dozens of bridges, taking all the hard work from literally 1000s of people and compiling it into one location, it would be equivalent to, you know, some of these projects, they're only making maps for a certain state or county or whatever. And then other ones are making the interstate or you know, between borders, they're showing you all the different routes you can take, we have a map of everything. And so we'll get you from point A to point B however you want, if you want to go the fastest route will get you there. If you want to do the most cost-efficient way to get there, we'll give you that option as well, you can choose that. If there's any malfeasance if something breaks, if something is being exploited one of the routes along your path, we're able to automatically truncate that from our ecosystem, put it on pause, and we'll still get you from point A to point B, it may be a different route, right? That we need to take. It may be less efficient, you may spend more gas, it may take an extra a bit of time, but we'll get you there. And that's what's so great about Rubic is if you use any one of these, you know, single projects that are allowing you to swap or bridge across networks. There's a whole list of reasons why things can go wrong with that, right. We've seen over $2 billion hacked from cross-chain bridges in the last 18 months alone. So you know, again, we'll just truncate that and we'll get you from point A to point B, because again, we're aggregating everything we have all the roads mapped that's basically how Rubic works.

Matt Zahab 
Again, very well set. I know we're getting tight for time here. We do need to wrap up soon But Collin, what an absolute treat let's get into the advice section of the pot for a sec. You are a sales and marketing guy similar to myself. What advice do you wish you had? Or what advice would you give to your 20-year-old self who's entering the sales and marketing industry or field? 

Collin O'Brien 
Um, trust your gut. Read as much as you can from as many people as you can, especially differing opinions. I think a lot of people these days, especially over the last five years, have put themselves in an echo chamber. So you're not exposed to ideas that challenge you to challenge your worldview. I think that that is extremely important for navigating this crazy world that we live in. So I would say, you know, yeah, read as much as you can be open-minded, right? Push yourself, challenge yourself, put yourself outside your comfort zone. And then ultimately, just trust your gut. You know, and I would say that is an extension of, of your mind in your heart, kind of working in unison and then that will give you like you said earlier that that kind of moral compass on how you can you know affect change in your life and, and the lives of those around you so and work hard. Has a lot of people today that just want to skate by you know, hard work does pay off. It's very cliche to say, but it is really true. 

Matt Zahab 
Love that. What a treat. Collin, thank you so much. Before you go, can you please let our listeners know where they can find you and Rubic online and on socials? 

Collin O'Brien 
Yeah, absolutely. So if you go to Rubic.exchange, we have everything there for all things Rubic related all our documentation, white paper, white paper, all our socials are there as well. So for Twitter, it's @cryptoRubic. You can check me out @Collin_Rubic. And then we also have our telegram channel as well. That is cryptoRubic_chat yet. So again, all of our socials and everything can be found on that website. Again, that is Rubic.exchange. You can check out our app on app.Rubic.exchange. And we do podcasts every Friday. So come by our Twitter come by our telegram check it out. It's always a good time we share updates with everything going on in not only Rubic but around the industry. And we have a number of high-profile guests on our show as of late and they have been fantastic conversations. 

Matt Zahab 
Love it Collin thank you so much, man. Appreciate the time looking forward to round two. And wishing you and the team all the best.

Collin O'Brien 
Excellent thank you so much, Matt. I appreciate it.

Matt Zahab 
Folks. What a great episode with Collin O'Brien giving us knowledge bombs left right and center on a multiple blockchain future and cross-chain swaps as always, I will include absolutely everything in the show notes everything Collin or Rubic related will be in the show notes if you enjoyed this one and I hope you did please do subscribe. It would mean the world might even speaking to the team love you guys and to the listeners, you’re the GOATS love you so much. Keep on grinding and keep on doing the thing. Keep on staying healthy, wealthy, and happy, and keep on growing those bags bye for now and we'll talk soon.