Anthony Anzalone, CEO of XION, on Blending the Physical and Digital World, Why Chain Abstraction Is Dead, and Securing Partnerships with Major Brands | Ep. 441

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May 26, 2025

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Anthony Anzalone, founder and CEO of XION (formerly known as Burnt Banksy), returned to the Cryptonews Spotlight Podcast to reflect on his company’s explosive growth and explain why chain abstraction is no longer the answer.

In a wide-ranging conversation, he shared updates on XION’s partnerships with Uber, Amazon, BMW, and Lego, revealed how the company secured a speaking slot at the NYSE, and explained what it takes to bring crypto to the masses, without ever saying the word “crypto”.

Blowing Past Expectations

“We launched Mainnet, 60,000 daily active users to a hundred thousand daily active users… We have the highest DAU to market cap ratio.”

In under a year, XION has grown from idea to live Layer 1 blockchain with hundreds of thousands of users – and it’s now powering real-world campaigns with global brands.

The NYSE Was Real – On April Fools’

“We were the first micro-compliant L1 blockchain and spoke on the New York Stock Exchange for it. Dude, it’s the best day to give real news.”

Anzalone pulled off a legendary PR move: announcing real institutional progress on April 1st. The move paid off with viral attention and confirmed XION’s compliance-first focus.

Why XION Had to Be a Layer 1

“We didn’t want to build an L1. We had to. If you change your underlying based off of a narrative, that’s bad.”

While L2s were trendy in 2023, Anzalone insists only an L1 architecture could deliver XION’s vision of consumer-scale blockchain that hides complexity entirely.

Chain Labels Don’t Matter Anymore

“It doesn’t matter. I could be whatever you want, baby.”

Forget L1 vs. L2 vs. L3. What matters is whether it works, not what we call it, especially when consumers never interact with the blockchain directly.

Institutional Validation Is Now a Budget Line

“It’s just money. It’s probably about a mill if you want to do it.”

With crypto ETFs and institutional legitimacy now pay-to-play, Anzalone says access is democratizing – but it still requires strategic clarity and timing.

Winning Without Wall Street

“We’re not focused on BlackRock tokenizing real estate. That’s going to happen somewhere else.”

While others chase Wall Street use cases, XION is focused on scalable consumer experiences that don’t require traditional finance buy-in.

How to Land a Deal with Uber or BMW

“They don’t know we’re a blockchain company.”

XION doesn’t lead with crypto. They go through creative agencies, speak to marketing or innovation teams, and deliver value without ever mentioning tokens.

Culture Is Where Crypto Has Failed

“You know how f***ing lame it is to try to mix culture and finance? It just doesn’t work.”

Crypto nailed finance, but struggled to embed in culture. Anzalone believes the next wave of adoption will come through fun, creative, real-world use cases.

Chain Abstraction Is Dead

“It’s hilariously antithetical to itself… You gotta learn how bad this is to learn how good we’re doing.”

The phrase “chain abstraction” has become so technical and obscure that it alienates new users. The future is building so well that no one knows it’s crypto.

Real-World Data Is Crypto’s Killer Feature

“Now you’re getting the idea of crypto. It’s about taking something physical and bringing it into the digital world.”

XION’s work with a breathalyzer company became a metaphor: proving you’re drunk to access apps. The bigger idea? Bridging physical events with digital value.

Don’t Sell the Tech – Sell the Benefit

“You need to talk in terms of value… Why would you want to use it unless you get some sort of benefit out of it?”

Anzalone urges builders to ditch blockchain jargon and focus entirely on delivering tangible outcomes for users.

Tokenization Is a Means, Not a Goal

“Tokenizing anything means absolutely nothing.”

Tokens should only exist to make something useful happen – whether it’s a game item, a ticket, or a contract, not as an end in themselves.

Use Blockchain Like a Database – But Smarter

“Now I have a database of all these houses and we can be the next Zillow.”

A Web2 founder wanted blockchain not for decentralization, but to offload infrastructure burdens – a reminder that crypto can be the better back end, even for non-believers.

The Endgame: One Link to Everything

“Imagine just sending a link. That’s it.”

Instead of walking users through wallets, bridges, and networks, XION’s vision is a one-click web experience – where users interact as if they’re using a regular app.