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Daniela Barbosa, Executive Director of Hyperledger Foundation, on Asset Tokenization, Enterprise Blockchain Use Cases, and CBDCs | Ep. 241

In an exclusive interview with cryptonews.com, Daniela Barbosa, Executive Director of Hyperledger Foundation, talks about Hyperledger Foundation’s history and the role it plays within the blockchain ecosystem, the growing enterprise and institutional adoption of blockchain technology, and government adoption of CBDCs.

About Daniela Barbosa

Daniela Barbosa serves as General Manager Blockchain and Identity at the Linux Foundation and as Executive Director of Hyperledger Foundation. She has more than 20 years of enterprise technology experience, including at Dow Jones where she worked with the top global brands across various sectors, including finance, consumer and energy, to architect and deliver enterprise systems, ontologies and semantic web solutions. In the early 2000s, Daniela became involved in the early web 2.0 community helping to advance the concept of digital identity and data portability as the pathway for people to reuse their data across interoperable applications.

Daniela Barbosa gave a wide-ranging exclusive interview which you can see below, and we are happy for you to use it for publication, provided there is a credit to www.cryptonews.com. 

Highlights Of The Interview

  • Hyperledger Foundation’s history and the role it plays within the blockchain ecosystem
  • The growing enterprise and institutional adoption of blockchain technology
  • Government adoption of CBDCs
  • Asset tokenization
  • The role of blockchain in powering sustainable practices at business, cross-industry and government levels

 

 

Full Transcript Of The Interview

Matt Zahab 
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Cryptonews Podcast. We are buzzing as always and today my guest is coming in hot from the one and only California, perhaps the nicest piece of land in the whole world. Always a treat to live there, always a treat to have guests on from there today we have Daniela Barbosa, the General Manager of Blockchain and Identity at the Linux Foundation and the Executive Director of Hyperledger Foundation. Daniela has more than 20 years of enterprise technology experience, including at Dow Jones, where she worked with top global brands across various sectors including finance, consumer and energy, all the way to architect and to deliver enterprise systems ontologies and semantic web solutions. In the early 2000s, Daniela became involved in the early Web 20 community, helping to advance the concept of digital identity and data portability as the pathway for people to reuse their data across interoperable applications. Super pumped to have you on. Been a hot minute, truly pleasure Daniela, welcome to the show. 

Daniela Barbosa 
It’s great being here. Thanks Matt, for inviting me and having me on today. 

Matt Zahab 
Super pumped to have you on. One word that really sticks out in your bio is the word interoperable. That is a word that I honestly don’t think I ever used once until getting into Crypto in 2020. And it seemed that in 2000 and 2021 that was perhaps would have been the word of the year for either of those two years. It seemed that everything blockchain related had to be interoperable. Different chains speaking to different chains, protocols, different protocols, so on and so forth. I think that’d be a good place to start. I’d love if you could give us some parallels about anything interoperable or just some of the sort of synonymous things that you’re seeing from Web 2.0 in the early 2000s to Web 3.0 present day in the early 2020s? 

Daniela Barbosa 
Yeah, I think we all figured out by 2020, 2021, that there’s not going to be one network to rule them all. If you think about it, and maybe early on, people did think that there was going to be One Blockchain network and everything was going to operate and run on One Blockchain network. So by 2021, even before we understood, especially in the enterprise space, so when large corporations are thinking about using distributed ledger technology, that there’s going to have to be multiple options, but that these networks ultimately will have to interact and transact with one another. So the concept of interoperability can be addressed, obviously from a technology perspective, but also from a governance perspective, right? You have different governance models on different blockchains and different communities. And how do you go about making sure that, for example, your digital assets can be transferred from one to another and with the premise of obviously what Blockchain is bringing to the market as well. 

Matt Zahab 
Again, there’s so many parallels from the early 2000s today. What about the conversations or certain narratives? Rip me down. Some of the biggest parallels, like, what are the things that you saw back in the day that you’re still seeing present day in regards to trying to figure out sort of these fibers and the connection points to really make it work? I wish I was fortunate enough to be a part of it. I would have been six, seven years old back then, way back. I was still kindergarten and grade one, grade two kind of thing. But what are some of the other parallels that you saw besides interoperability? 

Daniela Barbosa 
I think overall, it’s always a play on efficiencies, right? And how can organizations create systems. That create efficiencies in their markets, in the industries that they have? And so I think when you think about blockchains and all the tools and technologies that are defined under Blockchain, it is about creating more efficient ways for people to have access to information, more efficient ways for people to do their business. So I don’t think that has changed much in the early 2000s. If you think about Web2, when. It started being the web more as a read write type of environment. So Web1 essentially thinking about it as a digital encyclopedia. You went on a website and you’re just like, oh, I can read, and people are publishing here. But Web2 became more of a read write. So not only could I read what was published, but I can write. But ultimately all that writing was being done on a platform that belonged to a third party, right? Whether it was MySpace or Facebook eventually or others, you didn’t own it. But the idea was the demarcarization. So having individuals access to the internet or access to the web was really core. So I think those principles of having people having information of people owning the information that they’re producing, those principles still reside. And the technologies today, the Web3 technologies, are enabling that much easier I think, in the marketplace. So for me, I’ve always been very interested in how the technologies enable access to information. When I did my undergrad and my graduate work, it was in library and information science. And I love libraries, I love books, I love cataloging books, but it was really about the access to the information. So in the early 90s, I was sitting in computer labs in the basements of my university, amazed by the amount of information that it was already on these proprietary systems. And thinking about how can that be further democraticized? How can people have access to the information? And if you think about today and Blockchain and Web3 and what is enabling our communities, it’s really that premises. And that’s why every day I wake up and I’m just like, I can’t believe I’m working in this industry because there’s still a lot of work to be done. But the technologies are really enabling that future that in the early 90s I fell in love with. 

Matt Zahab 
So it was almost a no brainer for you to jump from Web2 to Web3. It seems like this is sort of deeply rooted in your muscles, bones, and fibers since you were, I guess young lady back in uni way back in the day. 

Daniela Barbosa 
Yeah, absolutely. And if you think about some of the principles around semantic web and digital identity that we’re being discussed, these are all principles that are being implemented into our systems today, whether it’s Blockchain or AI or any other technologies that are building our infrastructure. So yeah, I’m still at it and very excited about where these things are actually going and where I’ve been with the Hyperledger Foundation for the last seven years, where our community as a whole has really invested and moved forward the technologies in the blockchain space. Let’s keep going on the Hyperledger Foundation for a sec. Before we get into it, I’d love if you could give a quick elevator pitch just to sort of set the tone and landscape for our listeners here. 

Daniela Barbosa 
All right, so for those of you who don’t know open source and how open source works, one of the things that’s important to understand about the Hyperledger Foundation is that we are part of the Linux Foundation. The Linux Foundation, for the last 20 years has essentially been the place for open source code projects to come in to be openly developed, right? So where code comes in and communities build together that are vendor agnostic that are really global in nature, and people are building open source code and these communities that support it together and collaboratively in the market. So the Linux Foundation hosts some of the most important technology open source projects. Obviously the Linux kernel being the first one, but things like cloud native computing, where Kubernetes, where all the cloud computing open source projects live. Automotive grade Linux, if you’re running many of the automobiles in the marketplace, the operating system, because your car now is a computer, the operating system is actually a Linux version. 

Matt Zahab 
I didn’t know that. 

Daniela Barbosa 
Yeah. And even if you have a Google phone and you have Android, android is a derivative of the Linux kernel. So really everything that touches technology at one point or another, academy Software Foundation, if you like 3D films, a lot of that software is created in the open source communities at the Linux Foundation, the Economy Software Foundation. And the key is that these companies want to create code, right? The Piping, the open source code Piping to build these things so that they actually build the movies. They want to build good movies for us, not the software to build it. So how do you do that? You come together and you work on these code projects together. And one of the things that in 2016, so in 2016 obviously, many of us were still not thinking about blockchain, right? But the enterprise is start thinking about the actual distributed ledger technology. What would the DLT and the principles under a blockchain enable from a business perspective? So in 2015, we had about 23 companies. And this included companies like IBM and SAP and Oracle, but also large banks like JPMorgan and others, where they came together and said, we understand DLT. There’s interesting things. Everybody read the Bitcoin white paper, right? Everybody was looking at what’s going on in the Ethereum ecosystem. And right then, it was only one or two networks at the time, right? And thinking about how can the technology themselves be used in the enterprise space? So in 2015, these companies got together, and by early 2016, the Hyperledger Project had been launched with, I think it was 23 companies that started it, but then hundreds joined very quickly after. And there was one project called Hyperledger Fabric, which continues to be one of the most adopted in the permission DLT space, in the permission blockchain space. And today, obviously, and we could talk about kind of how the market has matured, but the Hyperledger Foundation was formed to create that open source community that was focused on a couple of things. One is on creating enterprise grade technology. Right? So if you’re going to build infrastructure, you’re going to build technical infrastructure that you’re going to replace financial systems with, or healthcare systems or supply chain and trade finance systems with, you want to make sure that it’s enterprise grade. Meaning that there’s a very healthy community working on it, that there’s a lot of commercial offerings around it. So that’s how the Hyperledger Project was formed and it was called the Project at the now it’s called the foundation to really bring the enterprises together to work collaboratively on those code projects. So think about it, the plumbing, right? People don’t want to have to rebuild the plumbing over and over again. People want to do it in a secure enterprise grade perspective. And people also, very importantly, want to be able to collaborate on these things so then they can spend their time building the value add on top, right? The applications, the networks that run on top of it as well. So in 2016, Hyperledger Project was formed. Since then we’ve had a lot of projects join so other open source projects join the foundation, what is now known as the Hyperledger Foundation, and really addressing the enterprise need of blockchain, which is very different than what it was even in 2016, right? If you think about it. So things like interoperability, things like digital identity, ways to interact with the different blockchains from a public and private perspective. So we could talk a bit about that as well. 

Matt Zahab 
I’d love to. On the enterprise blockchain use case for a second, correct me if I’m wrong, but the biggest enterprise in every continent/country is government, most of the time, at least to my knowledge. Is that correct? 

Daniela Barbosa 
Well, I think maybe not in revenue per se. If you look at some of the big companies, certainly in the number of citizens that each government has to support and basically service. 

Matt Zahab 
So on those enterprise use cases more specifically for crypto and blockchain bond settlements, remittances, cross border payment, supply chain, four massive multitrillion dollar industries that all seem like they’re ready for a little shake up. How are you and the team moving and grooving to build enterprise blockchain use cases for those four big areas and potentially more important ones? 

Daniela Barbosa 
Yeah, I think if you look at the core of what blockchain enables, right? It is those efficiencies. It is creating systems that have less friction to operate in. So I think all those use cases, that is the goal, right? When enterprises and governments are looking to build better infrastructure, to build better products and services, that is really the goal that they’re doing it and wanting to do it in a secure way. When you think about the Hyperledger Foundation, we are an open source community, which means that we actually at the foundation. Our staff is not building products and services using the technology right? It is the companies and even the governments that are building the solutions that then are being implemented from a production perspective. So the Hyperledger Foundation many of people know who the Hyperledger Foundation is. We have a very large brand. People understand us. Some people still have an idea of what we were in 2016 and 2017. Many more obviously now understand where we are in regards to the amount of projects and the amount of things that we have. We only have eight people on staff. Because what we have is a community. We have over 80,000 participants in our Meetup community, for example. These are people that show up and want to learn how to use Hyperledger technologies that are building using the open source code, that are participating in our special interest groups. Whether it’s our supply chain interest group or our capital markets financial services interest group or the mortgage special interest group. These are people that come together to share their knowledge and also to develop things correctly. We have hundreds of member companies. So these are companies that join the Hyperledger foundation to help fund essentially the work that we do for the open source community. Matt one of my favorite things to do is to go out in public. For many years, we couldn’t do that due to COVID and restrictions in traveling. And when I go out to conferences or when I’m at events and people come up to me and they say, oh, I have used Hyperledger code base XYZ to build this solution that I’ve built my business on top of. Right? I feel like every single day I discover something new that someone has built. And that’s the good and the bad of open source. Like, I wish I had a database that I can click a button and say, well, here’s the thousands and thousands of implementations that have used Hyperledger Bezu, which is one of our projects, or Hyperledger Indie, which is another that is it for digital identity. But unfortunately, that’s not the way open source works. But the beauty of it is that there’s hundreds of implementations. Some are immature in a sense. They’re experimentations or their MVPs or POCs. And some are really like in deep into the core of businesses. And for example, trade finance networks that are moving all our supply chain things. Whatever you bought last week that got delivered to Toronto potentially was built on platforms that are using Hyperledger technologies to deliver those kind of things through a supply chain or a trade finance system as well. That’s the most exciting part of my job. Just this morning I found out someone else was about to launch a new platform using Hyperledger technology and it’s great. This is all this is how open source works. 

Matt Zahab 
I love that. Of the enterprise use cases that you guys are building on. And I apologize in advance because this is going to be a gritty question, but which gets you going the most? What are you most excited about? Is it the central bank digital currency? Is it faster settlement times? Financial inclusion, cross border transactions. If you could pick the one perhaps area or niche of enterprise blockchain tech that you and the team are building, what do you think has perhaps the highest ceiling or intrigues you and the team the most present day? 

Daniela Barbosa 
So, as a reminder, the team as from a staff perspective, the community, right? All 80,000. I mean, there’s certainly more. Those are 80,000 people that put their mail address into a box and said, hey, we’re here to build and to collaborate together. It’s an interesting question because depending on, for example, what blockchain media or even mainstream media you look at every few weeks, there’s a different use caseure that people are mostly interested in. I mean, you mentioned central bank digital currencies. The Hyperledger community has since the beginning, really been core to CBDC experimentations and those even that are already in production. So a couple of our projects have, for example, Hyperledger Iroha was one of the first retail CBDCs in Cambodia that actually was launched using Hyperledger Iroha, which is one of our DLT platforms today. If you look at some central banks, I think the majority of central banks are at one stage or another of experimentation or production implementations using technologies, and many of them venture to say the majority of them that are DLT, there are some experimentations that are not using blockchain for CBDC experiments, but for those that are using DLTs, they’re most likely selecting two of our projects, which is Hyperledger Fabric and Hyperledger Besu. And we’ve had some really great wins both on the retail and wholesale side where that is being used. And that’s interesting, it is a long cycle. People say, hey, when will CBDCs or Central Bank Digital Currencies be launched globally? I think it’s a long cycle. You’ll see some regions moving a little bit faster, but ultimately here’s my personal opinion. I want these things to move at the pace that they need to do in order for it to be done correctly. I think there’s a lot of efficiencies, there’s a lot of great reasons to build CBDCs, but ultimately each region needs to understand the monetary policy that they need to address for their region before even sometimes they look at the technology. The technology is there it’s been proven. There’s a lot of great work that is happening in our communities to enhance the technology from a security perspective, from a scalability perspective, to further allow CBDCs to be used. Depending on the month you’re at CBDCs might be the dejures, I think back to my point of why people use blockchain and why people would want to implement a blockchain solution in whatever use case. It’s about efficiencies, creating ways for people to onboard into these new networks with less friction. I’ve always maybe it’s my beginnings as a librarian, right? And being wanting to do making sure that people had access to the information that is available to them. I get very excited about use cases where you’re creating ways for people to participate in financial services. Right? And if you think about a lot of work right now is going on as well in tokenization, like tokenization of real world assets and being able to democratize access to financial markets for individuals worldwide. I think that gets me excited because I think that’s kind of the premise of where we all got involved in blockchain in the early 2000s when we all read the white paper is how can we create systems that allow individuals to participate more in our financial systems as well. 

Matt Zahab 
And that is indeed through asset tokenization. Daniela, you are absolutely on fire right now. But we got to take a quick break and give a huge shout out to our sponsor of the show, PrimeXBT, longtime friends of cryptonews.com and truly a great team who offers a robust trading system for both beginners and professional traders. It doesn’t matter if you’re a rookie or a vet, you can easily design and customize your layouts and widgets to best fit your trading style. PrimeXBT is running an exclusive promotion for listeners of the Cryptonews Podcast. After making your first deposit, 50% of that first deposit will be credited to your account as a bonus that can be used as additional collateral to open positions. The promo code is CRYPTONEWS50. That’s CRYPTONEWS50 all one word to receive 50% of your deposit credited to your trading account. Again, that is CRYPTONEWS50 all one word to receive 50% of your deposit credited to your trading account. And now back to the show with Daniela. Let’s keep buzzing on asset tokenization for a while. This is one of the areas of blockchain tech that intrigued me and got me going the most when I first sort of took my deep dive into the space. I love how asset tokenization can be applied to nontraditional finance methods. Like right now, you can invest in stocks, you can invest in a bunch of other things, traditional assets, bonds, but. I think it’s going to be really fun when you can take something like this notebook, for example, if it had any value besides just my scribbly notes on it. And I could tokenize that and allow someone to participate in some type of economic trade or, or economic value. I’m also super excited for the time, and perhaps this is gonna be years down the road, but I’m very excited for the time when I can go to the local corner store and buy, you know, a water bottle with a share of apple or a share of Google. And I don’t just mean a share because obviously an apple share costs much more than a water bottle, but I mean a tokenized or a fraction of an apple share. These are things that truly gets me going. What are some of the sort of use cases for asset tokenization that get you going right now? 

Daniela Barbosa 
Yeah, so one of the ones is how can we use this technology for good as well? So if you think about from a climate perspective, there’s a use case with the BIS and the Hong Kong Monetary Authority around green bond tokenization and they’re using Hyperledger technologies in order to do this. But the core thing is that they’re opening up a market for regular individuals to buy into the green market bonds. And I think that’s like a great way for individuals to participate in the economy, to participate in the economy and have access to the same level of opportunities as the big players and to do something good. Right? Although I’m sure selling tokenizing your notebook would be very good for Matt depending on what information. 

Matt Zahab 
No one wants that stuff. That’s a selfish use case. 

Daniela Barbosa 
Yeah. To your point like ways that we’re seeing people from a green market perspective using tokenization I think is interesting. Certainly shout out to the BIS and to Hong Kong for leading the way out on that as well. The other thing that I think is interesting is how can you fractionalize and basically create liquidity out of value that you’ve produced? So, I’ll give you an example that is using blockchain. It’s using a combination of Hyperledger Fabric, which is one of our distributed ledger projects, and then public blockchain that’s purposely built for the enterprise, which is called Casper. So there’s project called IPWI, and what they’re focused on is an IP so a patent platform. So imagine Matt, in that notebook, you actually have a great idea and you go and you patent that idea. You go to the patent office in Canada and you patent that idea and they give you a nice certificate and they say, all right, Matt, here’s your patent for that certificate. Today what you do is you probably create a startup. You’re an entrepreneur, you start a business, you create a startup and you create an awesome looking pitch deck. I know you would totally do an awesome one. And you go from VC, an investor pitching your idea, and you say, hey, I got this awesome patent that was assigned to me. Will you invest in my company and take equity in my company so I can build a solution using my patent. Right? And what well, no, what you just did is you sold equity in your company and you know, in essence, now that VC or that investor is now part of your company. But what if instead you could say, hey, I have this patent and I can fractionalize, so I tokenize this patent and now I can sell equity in the patent itself, but not in the company. Right? I could still get my VCs and investors to invest in my company, but ultimately it’s not in the control of the company. Right? It’s in control of your patent and now you’ve basically created an opportunity to raise money off the patent that’s been issued. So those kind of things I think are pretty interesting. That a platform is called IPWI. They have claimed to have, like, 25 million patents basically mint on the IPWI platform. And then what’s interesting is that they need the permission, so the permission DLT in order to create an environment that is sharing that information separately, but then they’re creating liquidity. So the ability to basically tokenize and sell your assets on a public blockchain. So a lot of that what we’re seeing is hybrid use cases where there is a network that is running a permissioned network, right? So those who participate in that network, and then they’re creating liquidity on public networks as well. There’s a couple of other ones that are doing something similar TOKO, which is the Tokenization Platform by DLA Piper, which is one of the largest legal firms in the world, where you can tokenize things from your home to apartments, to construction, buildings, artwork, and even horses. You can actually tokenize your horse on the TOKO platform, which sounds a little bit gross, but if you think about it, some of those horses are pretty expensive. And if you’re able to invest in that, that’s pretty cool. 

Matt Zahab 
Yeah, those are some really interesting use cases. Man, oh, man. How does the government feel about asset tokenization? Because I feel like that just adds layers of complexity to all their legal framework. They obviously do not have their thumb on the pulse when it comes to blockchain tech at the moment. It’s an absolute gong show. But how do they feel about that? Because, again, that’s going way out of their comfort zone, and that’s jumping into new waters that no one’s really delve into before. 

Daniela Barbosa 
Yeah. So at Hyperledger Foundation, really focus on the technology part of it. Right? And the policy and the regulation is going to get itself figured out. On your comment around governments, some governments get it in some regions. Take a look at Europe and what the legislation, the MiCA legislation. Now it took them many years to get that and it’s not perfect, but there’s interesting things in there and you can see a lot of people are even saying maybe Europe is a place for us to look from a leadership perspective. So I think my comment on that is they’ll figure it out. Right? They’ll figure it out and some of the industry is going to have to have patience, others are going to go elsewhere to try to figure it out. But I think one thing that is important to see and to take a look at is there are already regulations that are really supporting the core. Once again, back to my what does blockchain actually do? The core things that blockchain can deliver. So, going back to Europe, a couple of things that I think are interesting that your audience might want to take a look at. One is for electronic vehicles and the requirements around the battery passport. So this is basically legislation and regulation around the battery materials that your electronic vehicles are using and other types of batteries as well. So if you think about how an EV battery is produced all the way down to the mine, there’s requirements around from a sustainability perspective and also to ensure that for example, the minerals will not mined using slave labor, right? That the whole supply chain aspect of it. So the battery passport regulation in Europe is addressing that from mine all the way to consumer and recycle from a circular perspective, right at the end of your car life and your battery, the passport will say these pieces can be recycled, these pieces came from here. And if you look at the regulation and it’s pretty strong in Europe, the blockchain use case is very clear, right? In order to be able to produce that battery passport and the life of that mineral into the battery and then into it from a recycled perspective, for circularity perspective, blockchain, because it’s immutable, because it can track the the traceability of that is really important. There’s also new legislation around agriculture in Europe where in order to buy specific products like cocoa or for chocolates or coffee that you also have to make sure that the items themselves don’t come from places that are deforestization. Right? So that the actual agriculture and the farming of the cocoa beans or coffee or other values is not deforesting the regions that it’s being produced in. Right? So this is legislation that the European Union is putting in place to protect consumers and from a climate perspective to protect those regions. That is also a sustainability and a traceability opportunity for blockchain specifically in the use case. So there’s regulation that the technology that the regulators are being put into place that it helps with and it’s not in the crypto asset security perspective but I think that a lot of those learnings will be ultimately implemented into different use cases as well. 

Matt Zahab 
Such a good point. In doing research for the show, obviously I got to do my homework and look at some past Daniel interviews and articles and whatnot. I know you’re big on the empowering sustainable practices at business government levels, more specifically the environment, just like you talked about. One of the terms that you’ve brought up a couple of times is corporate greenwashing which I’ve heard of a couple of times. But after doing a deep dive into it, it’s crazy how present it is in today’s business and how many corporations just go at this so easily. And I know you have a bunch of really interesting takes and use cases about how blockchain can sort of fix that as well. 

Daniela Barbosa 
Yeah, I mean if you think about back to the core of what blockchain does ,right? It’s immutable record. Right? It’s something that cannot black or white. The old saying garbage in garbage out, right? You still need to figure out how do you get the right data into these systems so that it’s not corrupted from the beginning. Right? But I think that if you look at the blockchain from a trust perspective, creating these trust frameworks blockchain from an immutability perspective, making sure that people understand that the data is the data in how it was certified. There’s some interesting projects. For example, the government of British Columbia back to our government use cases, and the government of British Columbia is doing some great work around working with the mines. Back to mining, and I don’t mean Bitcoin mining, I mean actual mineral mining from the Earth and being able to certify from a climate perspective, a sustainability perspective, how these companies are removing the minerals from the lands and then incorporating them into projects. And I think that why blockchain and why do you want to use technologies like verifiable credentials, for example, where you’re verifying the credentials of that specific mineral and how it’s produced and who produces it? It goes back to how do you trust this? And when companies do it like that, and when you have certifier basically saying, this is a certified piece of data, then. You can build whole infrastructure on top of it. First you have the trust in the system and then you can build applications on top of it, right? Because it’s proven. So then you can use for example things like smart contracts in order to say if this happens within this environment, then these contracts or this insurance can be paid out. So I think when you look at back to the why blockchain and what is the technology is really enabling that today you cannot do with a centralized database. These are the kind of things that if you look at the topic of greenwashing, how can society and how can industry actually make sure that these large companies are not producing data that is making them look good, but in reality is not doing anything for the climate and for us.   

Matt Zahab 
It’s got to be fact role. Daniela, what a treat to have you on. You have been absolutely on fire today. I love the passion as well. It’s rare that someone comes on with so much passion about what they do, especially working at a foundation. So kudos a couple more Daniela’s in the world, but definitely make the world a better place. And truly a pleasure to have you on. Can’t wait to have you on for the next one. Before you go, can you please let our listeners know where they can find you and Hyperledger Foundation online and on socials.  

Daniela Barbosa 
Absolutely. For anybody who wants to hear about any of these case studies and use cases that I mentioned, go to hyperledger.org. Under the learn, there’s a bunch of courses. If you’re new to Blockchain and kind of want to get involved, you can do coursework there around identity and around our projects, there’s a lot of case studies. We have about 150 case studies on our website that you can review and see how these technologies are being used. So, hyperledger.org, if you want to find me easiest ways on LinkedIn, just do a Google Daniela Barbosa. There’s many of us, but I’m the one that works at the Hyperledger Foundation. So please hit me up there and I’m happy to talk to anyone. We have a great team worldwide that supports our community. Join our meetups, go to hyperledger.org and click on participate and join our meetups and really learn about what technology for the last seven years has been building in the ecosystem. Sometimes it’s not sexy, but you know what, it’s creating real value in the world. So happy to be here. 

Matt Zahab 
Love that. And Twitter is @Hyperledger. Great one there. I don’t know how you guys snagged that, but touche. Daniela, thank you so much, really appreciate it and can’t wait to have you on for round 2.  

Daniela Barbosa 
You got it. Thanks, Matt

Matt Zahab 
Folks, what an episode with Daniela Barbosa, Executive Director of Hyperledger Foundation, anything enterprise, institutional adoption of blockchain tech, CBDCs, asset tokenization, powering sustainable business practices, you name it, we covered it. Huge shout out to Daniela and the team. And another huge shout out to Daniela for coming on. What a great episode. To the listeners if you guys enjoyed this one, I hope you did, please do subscribe. It would mean the world to my team and I. Speaking to the team love you guys, thank you so much for everything. Justas my amazing sound editor. Appreciate you as always, my man. And back to the listeners, love you guys keep on growing those bags and keep on staying healthy, wealthy and happy. Bye for now and we’ll talk soon.