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Jacobc.eth, Founder at Hyperplay and Founding Contributor at Mantle, on Decentralised Trust, Modular L2s and Account Abstraction | Ep. 229

In an exclusive interview with cryptonews.com, Jacobc.eth, Founder of Hyperplay & Founding Contributor at Mantle, talks about creating decentralized trust via cryptoeconomic security, re-staking innovation, and account abstraction.

About jacobc.eth

Jacobc.eth is the Founder of Hyperplay, Founding Contributor at Mantle, and Strategic Advisor to MetaMask. As a lauded Web3 innovator and industry veteran, jacobc.eth leads Mantle’s prototype development, innovation experimentation, and product growth strategy to truly propel Web3 scalability and enable a vast multitude of next-generation dApp projects.

Prior to joining Mantle, jacobc.eth was Operations Lead at MetaMask, developing growth and monetisation strategies for the leading crypto wallet and its parent company, ConsenSys Software, where he spent over four years.

jacobc.eth has spearheaded innovation across a variety of industries, serving as Chief Technology Officer for Concierge Auctions, the largest online marketplace for luxury real estate, Chief Technology Officer for Merlin Labs, an autonomous aviation technology company, and Director of Innovation at Berkshire Hathaway’s HomeServices of America, the largest real estate company in the world.

Jacobc.eth gave a wide-ranging exclusive interview which you can see below, and we are happy for you to use it for publication provided there is a credit to www.cryptonews.com. 

Highlights Of The Interview

  • Creating decentralized trust via cryptoeconomic security 
  • (Re)staking innovation — Why ether selling pressure will be limited and restaking protocols like EigenLayer will emerge victorious post-Shapella
  • Account abstraction — Why this is a true game-changer for Web3 UX in charting its critical pathway toward mass adoption
  • Infrastructure to sustain Web3’s vibrant #BUIDLer ecosystem — Why an orthogonal, partnership-driven approach to building robust infrastructure is key to sustainable blockchain innovation
  • Organic regenerative farming – the future of sustainable farming

 

 

 

Full Transcript Of The Interview

Matt Zahab 
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Cryptonews Podcast. We are buzzing as always, and your boy is a little sick today, a little under the weather. It’s definitely not a Jordan Flu Game Podcast, but we are battling through it is what it is. Everyone’s sick in Toronto. You got to do what you got to do. Now, enough about me. Onto the guest. Pumped to have Jacobc.eth on the show today. A BitDAO core contributor and wrote the founding proposal for Mantle. He’s also the founder of HyperPlay and Strategic Advisor to MetaMask. Wow, what a treat. He’s also a lauded Web3 innovator and industry veteran, leading Mantle’s prototype development, innovation, experimentation, and product growth strategy to truly propel Web3 scalability and enable a vast multitude of next generation dApp projects. Prior to joining Mantle, Jacob was Ops Lead at MetaMask, developing growth and monetization strategies for the leading crypto wallet and its parent company, ConsenSys Software, where he spent over four years. Jacob has spearheaded innovation across a variety of industries, serving as CTO for Concierge Auctions, the largest online marketplace for luxury real estate, CTO for Merlin Labs, an autonomous aviation tech company and Director of Innovation at Berkshire Hathaways Home Services of America, the largest real estate company in the world. What a bio pump to get into this. Jacob, welcome the show, my friend. 

Jacobc.eth
Thank you so much for having me, Matt. 

Matt Zahab 
Pumped to have you on. Also Secret Labs gang. Love the chair in the background for our visual viewers and not just our friends commuting back to work in their lovely whips. And wow, so many things to jump into here. Let’s start with Jacob, the person before we get into all the crypto stuff and the one thing that stood out to me was Berkshire Hathaway’s Home Services of America, the largest real estate company in the world. I feel like so many of us, myself included, I totally forgot that Berkshire Hathaway even had that line, that product line. I have one of Buffett’s books behind me, The Oracle of Omaha, and I remember reading it in there, and I totally forgot about it. What was it like working for Berkshire Hathaway? Did you ever get any touch points with Warren or Charlie or any of the big dogs? Any funny stories from those good old days? 

Jacobc.eth
Home Services of America created an innovation lab for building real estate tech from my time at Concierge Auctions. So I was Chief Technology Officer for the real estate marketplace that you mentioned, and we actually built basically, an innovation lab that was focused on automating and improving the experience of buying and selling homes in traditional real estate after we had done it in luxury real estate. It was kind of based on the hypothesis of you can really build and innovate in higher luxury segments, like kind of like Tesla built, like, really high end cars and then made mass market cars. We created a marketplace that really improved and used incentives to do price discovery and things like that on traditional real estate, and then we extended that to mainstream real estate. So I will say, like, Home Services in Berkshire Hathaway are not where I would want to be today. It’s very different world, and my dreams were in Ethereum and crypto, and I was really excited to get started on the things I was really passionate about, but I did a complex transaction with them around Concierge Auctions, and it was a different time in my life.  But, yeah, it was super fun. 

Matt Zahab 
Why the move? I always ask my guests this because I’m incredibly fortunate to have some very smart people on the show like yourself who had really good, not just paying jobs, but also fulfilling jobs, building really cool things to help a lot of people. And you are one of the people who were in that yacht and you decided to leave that big old yacht and at the time jump in a little kayak or tin boat so why the move? 

Jacobc.eth
So I was a super early Bitcoiner and had really deeply believed in Bitcoin like going back to as an activist in college and really got into Bitcoin in the very early days as a decentralized payment system that would be an answer to what the 2008 bailouts and those sort of things that were happening. And I was really inspired by that vision, but I never really thought of it as something I could work in and a career that I could have. And it was like an interest to me around the time of the Ethereum white paper and the idea that we could build decentralized applications and we could build a whole ecosystem of a new internet and an entire new financial system and a more community owned financial system, that was a really deeply inspiring vision for me. I had been working on this real estate marketplace, but my heart was in Ethereum and I was kind of obsessed with Ethereum, actually. 

Matt Zahab 
To what extent do you have any funny stories from your Ethereum obsession? Like you ever have to check yourself into EA Ethereum is anonymous kind of thing. Any Ethereum therapy. 

Jacobc.eth
No, but I would go to work and I would just spend half the day reading white papers and following the DAO, the original DAO. I sold all my BTC one week before the DAO hack and then almost had a heart attack during the DAO hack. Because I thought, like, Ethereum was going to collapse. I sold it all for ETH and there were so many different products and protocols and things that I wanted to build, and I got really excited by the status ICO, which I wanted blockchains to replace the existing social networks, like even back in I think that was early 2017 for that one. And just the vision of community owned protocols for the core infrastructure of the internet really kind of took me back to the early days of the internet that I was really inspired by. Growing up in high school, I was really involved in the BitTorrent community and worked on one of the earliest BitTorrent Trackers. I thought that the Internet should make society more free and it should make society more owned by the people who contribute to the protocols, not by five monopolies that own and run our lives. And when I got older, the Internet became something that I had a hard time imagining. Like, this was what we created and Ethereum brought back the early radicalism of the internet. And that was really exciting for me and I saw things through and then came and did the thing that I really wanted to do, which was work on Ethereum. And I joined ConsenSys. I worked on one of the earliest grant funding DAOs in the Ethereum ecosystem and then joined MetaMask. 

Matt Zahab 
How do you get into ConsenSys? I’ve again been fortunate enough to have had to have a couple of people who’ve actually been fortunate enough to work at ConsenSys during those crazy hockey stick growth and incredibly important innovative years. Mind you, they still are shipping and building incredible things. But I mean, in the early days. Like, what do you do? You just, you know, fire over a resume, chat in the discord. Like, how do you get hired by ConsenSys? How did you get hired? How does anyone get hired by ConsenSys back in the day? 

Jacobc.eth
So, back in the day, ConsenSys had this spoke model. So there was 8000 something products that were being incubated at ConsenSys. There were people who were in the Austin Ethereum Meetup. ConsenSys helps to create, in the really early days of Ethereum, a bunch of different local Ethereum groups across the world. And one of those was in Austin. I had joined that and was attending different talks and things and joining in, and I met somebody who was from ConsenSys and I was really excited to join ConsenSys and to solve different problems. The product I joined, it’s still around. It’s called Penvala. It’s a grant funding DAO, but it was originally actually a TCR for smart contract security. TCRs are, like, one of the few Web3 business models that ever got brought back, although it’s super interesting and I think it probably will come back in some form. 

Matt Zahab 
What’s it called? 

Jacobc.eth
Token curated registry TCR. So the idea behind TCRs, it’s really popular like in the 2018 cycle, TCRs were a way of measuring truth using blockchains. Participants in the TCR would stake their funds to say that something was true. And if you said something was true that wasn’t true, your tokens would be forfeited to the people who corrected your claims. So there was a bunch of early TCRs you might have heard of FOAM was one of the biggest early ones. It was like a proof of location protocol where it was like you could maintain Google Maps through token incentives and create, like, a more decentralized version of Google Maps or possibly even a more decentralized version of like GPS and things like that generally. There were other TCRs that were really popular in the early days, like Civil, which was a journalism aggregator, and newsrooms could join the TCR by agreeing to abide by journalistic standards. And if you violated and the token owners decided you violated these journalistic standards, you would forfeit your tokens to the community. It was an attempt to make a meta aggregator of news that forced ethical journalism. There were other TCRs, but this original one was a TCR that told you, like, had these smart contracts been audited? Which was a problem early on and it was part of ConsenSys diligence, which is the smart contract auditing part of ConsenSys. And so we were trying to create incentives for smart contracts to get audited because there were tons of hacks happening in those early days and incentives for the user to be able to know whether or not this smart contract was audited, how many audits it’s had, how long has it been in the wild, those sort of things. So it was a security and transparency layer for Ethereum. 

Matt Zahab 
Wow, some crazy stuff. Let’s get into a couple of the topics that you’re very passionate about on the crypto side of things. And then we’ll get into a couple of the companies, organizations that you are obviously working with and have founded and are shipping some incredible things with. But before we do that, I’d like to talk about your take regarding decentralized trust via crypto economic security. Now, this is a big old mouthful. If I would have said that to someone not in the space, they would be in banana lands. They’d have absolutely no clue what’s going on, and rightfully so, that is a big issue and a bunch of rather large words that are pieced together there. Now, you sort of spoke upon this when you talked about what got you fired up and what got you passionate about crypto and Ethereum. And that is the decentralized sort of true ethos of the Internet, which was the original purpose of the internet now is obviously completely changed and is profit motivated like anything else in life. That’s a story for another day. But I’d love if you could do a deep dive into sort of the distinct concepts of economic trust, decentralized trust, and how an ETH validator sort of really helps bring all of these things together. So the floor is yours. Give me what you got on this. 

Jacobc.eth 
Well, I think the internet itself, like going back to those early days, was about decentralizing access to information. I grew up believing the internet would make information, data, labor, just generally more free and that it would have a dramatically democratizing effect on society. What we actually got was Amazon, Apple, Google, and Facebook basically came to monopolize that information. There was no native business model for the internet at the time. And so you could make things like YouTube, you could make things like Facebook, but it wasn’t really clear how to monetize those products. And so the business model became advertising. And then you needed to grow the amount of time and attention that people would spend in these apps. And the way that you did that was through addicting them to them and creating perverse incentives and perverse forms of addiction and made people angry, like Facebook shoving strange content in your face or just some of the stuff that people see around like TikTok and Instagram now. But the early internet the vision for it required there to be decentralized trust and credibly neutral. Like the early Ethereum values, credibly neutral, decentralized, a range of different values that people should watch the early talks by Andrea Santanopoulos, who’s a big influence on me. And like Ethereum validators were not on chain plutocratic governance. The proof of stake model, not the delegated proof of stake model, was about being a validator to prove truth and to create credibly neutral trust. And then on top of that, we could build a layer of decentralized applications that had all kinds of different purposes. But with this base layer, this trust layer that ensures the integrity of the information and the data upon which we’re building and with a transactional layer, we could suddenly start building dApps that were based on just basic commerce. Like you could monetize things in completely different ways than advertising. And I still think we’re in the early days of that, but we will get to a place where probably most people have wallets and can do microtransactions. And that vision ultimately allows people to have much more ethical business models where you are not the product, you are a customer of platforms and the platforms themselves are community owned protocols upon which we’re all contributors. 

Matt Zahab 
Well said. I think the whole contributor thing is something that besides crypto, is very undervalued and over promised. Like when you think of contributors, I feel like one of the first things you think about is people getting very small pieces of the pie. And now you’re looking at the companies that you talked about the TikToks, the YouTubes, the Twitters, who now it’s like, okay, if you are a contributor and you contribute to that platform by bringing in eyeballs and impressions, we’re going to give you a kickback. But at the end of the day, I feel like there’s usually a lot more than just the sort of the financial incentive. What is it about Web3 folks, Web3 native people that get going, get fired up, rather about having the opportunity to contribute to something without that financial gain? I wouldn’t even say that I’m really in that yacht because I haven’t contributed next to nothing compared to the people like you. But what is it about the crypto people? Is it perhaps more open minded? What qualitative traits sort of make us different from the non Web3 folks, if that makes sense? 

Jacobc.eth
Yeah, I think this ecosystem seems to draw some of the best people and some of the worst people. It brings people who want to build and innovators and people who want things to be more community owned and those sort of things. It also drives a lot of cash grabs and things I’m not proud of about our ecosystem. But generally, I think that the overall trend of these products is not the monopolization of these protocols. It’s that these protocols become more decentralized and community owned over time because of how they’re crafted and because of how the economic incentives work. The story of Uniswap for example, the whole saga between SushiSwap and Uniswap, the incentives actually encouraged Uniswap to become a more decentralized protocol and to distribute governance tokens to its community, to people who had used it. There’s all kinds of civil attack problems and now a bunch of small VC farms trying to farm the rewards of every protocol. And that’s something that we need to solve through reputation. It’s actually one of the products that’s being built in GAME7, which is part of the BitDAO ecosystem, is called Summon. It’s a reputation protocol that makes it so that it’s not just tokens that govern protocols, but it’s those tokens are multiplied by your reputation. So are you an open source contributor? Are you using these products, like, in a gaming context? Are you playing games? Are you completing quests? Are you joining the community? Being part of governing the community? And then based on those, you multiply the votes so the financial speculators tokens are worth less than the people who are actually contributing and building. 

Matt Zahab 
Interesting. I love that. But on the flip side, that’s also like, I’m all for this, but that also has a very minuscule injection of the Chinese credit score system to it. I know, they’re completely different things. I just mean, like, how it’s really you’re being judged on your social capital, which is interesting, and in this case, I’m all for it. 

Jacobc.eth
I think the difference is that these are communities and reputation that you choose to join, as opposed to something being forced on you by the state. 

Matt Zahab 
Exactly. Voluntary and non voluntary. Well said, very true there. Jacob, you’re on a roll. But we got to take a quick break and give a huge shout out to our sponsor of the show, PrimeXBT. And when we get back, we are going to talk about account abstraction. Huge article that came out recently from the team at MetaMask. I honestly wasn’t even too sure about what this was until I read it. And Jacob is an absolute chiseled vet when it comes to this and he’s going to give us the deep dive. But before then, huge shout out to PrimeXBT, our sponsors of the show. Longtime sponsors of the show at Cryptonews. We love these guys. They offer a robust trading system for both beginners and professional traders. Doesn’t matter if you’re a rookie or a vet, you can easily design and customize your layouts and widgets to best fit your trading style. PrimeXBT is also offering a massive promo for listeners of the Cryptonews Pod. After making your first deposit, 50%, that is 50% of that first deposit will be credited to your account as a bonus that can be used as additional collateral to open positions. The promo code is CRYPTONEWS50. To take advantage of this offer, you need to put in CRYPTONEWS50 all in one word to receive 50% of your deposit credited to your trading account. And now back to the show with Jacob. Let’s jump right into account abstraction again, until I was prepping for the show, until I read the article from MetaMask, which I believe you very well may have co authored or authored in general. But nonetheless, walk me through account abstraction and why it’s such a true game changer for Web3 user experience. And what does this mean? Why does it matter? Walk me through it all. 

Jacobc.eth
I can’t take credit for MetaMask’s account abstraction work these days, but they are doing some really interesting things with Delegatable. They’re also building some 4337 type features that are super interesting. So account abstraction is the opportunity for a lot of different things that people are super interested in, the ability to be able to associate a like today, we can have contract accounts. Those contract accounts are able to do things like Meta transactions that an externally owned account can’t do. For example, I’m onboarding into Web3 for the first time. Maybe the developer of a product or a platform wants to pay for my first transactions to help me onboard. Or you’re my friend Matt, I want you to come try Web3. I want to pay your first five transactions because we’re friends, and I want you to experience this, abstracting away the transactions or allowing them to be paid in some other token like you’re using my product. I want you to be able to pay for the gas using my token and then the contract pays for the gas for you and accepts payment in whatever token that you’re holding. Those are Meta transactions. And that’s some of the stuff that people are the most excited about. There’s other things that are really interesting about account abstraction, but today you need a contract account to do that, and that contract account has a lot of friction to set it up. I think many people maybe overestimate how much account abstraction will reduce some of the friction of creating a contract account, but that’s for another time. But these account abstraction accounts can also be associated with other platforms. And so maybe you onboard into a wallet in one product and then associate it with an interoperable wallet at a later date. The portability of the wallets is super important. I am personally a big proponent of both EIP-4337 and EIP-3074. EIP-3074 brings contract account capabilities to users existing externally owned accounts, which is really important because we already have hundreds of millions of people who have onboarded into Web3, and those people are still going to have those wallets even in a world where account abstraction wallets are available and also account abstraction or contract accounts, they exist per chain. You won’t have necessarily the same account on every chain like people are used to with EOAs. So I think it’s really important that we enable Meta transactions and contract capabilities for users existing wallets, and that can actually make it easier for users with existing wallets to use Meta transactions to upgrade to account abstraction wallets. I know sometimes people in the Ethereum ecosystem take like an either or kind of political approach to supporting EOAs or account abstraction. And I think we really need to just innovate across the board and support all of these innovations. And one of the things that I’ve really wanted to bring to the Mantle ecosystem is support for both and to really do everything that we can to improve the user experience of people onboarding into decentralized protocols. 

Matt Zahab 
Love that. You’re also huge on partnership driven approaches to building robust infrastructure. And there’s a lot of people who are in the same yacht as you, but pretty much, if I understand correctly, that you guys are huge on an orthogonal partnership driven approach to building this massive infrastructure layer, which is key to sort of innovation without us scratching each other’s backs. Innovation will slow or wouldn’t be as quick as if back scratching was present all around. I’d love if you can just take a deep dive into this and maybe provide some examples of how this creates a vibrant builder ecosystem. 

Jacobc.eth
Yeah, so the BitDAO model of building was really different than the traditional product model most people are familiar with make a startup, go to VCs, raise money, get product market fit. It’s a try and trade formula. The early BitDAO ecosystem was especially putting emphasis on this fractal DAO approach. And all of the different products and projects that we created were co created with other external entities. And this is true of both Mantle, but it’s also true of the things we did historically. So GAME7 was a DAO that was co created between BitDAO and Forte. And then inside of GAME7, we developed a product I’m the founder of, which is Hyperplay, which is a Web3 native game launcher. We co created that in partnership with MetaMask. And really collaborated with another external entity called the Heroic Games Launcher, which is a Web2 open source game launcher. And this approach, and by the way, HyperPlay and heroic are really deeply aligned. But this approach of building things with external partners and kind of building a fractal of community contributor and developer driven products was a really different model than the traditional model. And Mantle, for example, has been a L2 that’s really focused on building with a range of other ecosystem partners. Some of the different existing L2 protocols are providing roll up solutions and deep collaboration with the Mantle team. We’re also working with EigenLayer and specifically Eigen DA. We should have a whole conversation on EigenLayer. I’ll share my passion for it. 

Matt Zahab 
We’ll save that for another pod because I feel like that could be a whole one themselves. 

Jacobc.eth
Yeah, I imagine you’re super familiar with it. And then we also worked with the Specular Team who really innovated in the fraud proof space for Rollups. So we really worked on making this a more partner driven L2 approach that was taking the best innovations that were happening in the ecosystem and making it a more community driven approach to a L2. 

Matt Zahab 
I love that. We are getting a little tight for time here. A couple more questions and then we will somewhat wrap it up. Another thing again, still going on the whole ETHish theme of the pod and again, you have tons of knowledge we’re going to have to have you on for round two so we can because again, we’re really just scratching the surface here. But restaking innovation and why Ether selling pressure will be limited and restaking protocols like EiganLayer will emerge victorious post Chappella. This is for all of the not price speculators per se, but for the listeners who do fancy any type of price related alpha, this next little bit will be for you. And again, really just discuss why ETH selling pressure will be limited and restaking protocols like EiganLayer  will emerge victorious post Chappella upgrade. 

Jacobc.eth
Yeah, well, I don’t give people investment advice. 

Matt Zahab 
Jacob is not a financial advisor. It’s in the show notes. It’s said right now. So TLDR.

Jacobc.eth 
I don’t own an ownership stake in EigenLayer, I should say. But the core idea behind EigenLayer is that we can extend the security of Ethereum to external protocols so we can build things which are off chain and still use Ethereum to provide trust to those protocols. The first thing for Mantle, what the Mantle team and EigenLayer team are doing together is collaborating around Eigen DA, which is Eigen Data Availability. So there’s two important innovations here. One is the security for an external protocol, and then one is that external protocol and how it reduces the gases of layer two. Many people are familiar with Optimistic Rollups. Optimistic Rollups use a second layer for executing the transaction, but then they do settlement and data on the Ethereum L1 in the traditional L2 model. In this model, the Ethereum L1 is storing the data of the L2. It’s completing the settlement of the L2. But if you break down a layer two’s transaction, typically about 80% of the gas fees are associated with writing the data on the call data on the Ethereum L1. And that is both very expensive. Because Ethereum wasn’t ever meant to be a data storage protocol, maybe not the most efficient way to do things. So Eigen DA is a separate data availability layer. That is a high performance data layer capable of high throughout bandwidth and data sharing and things like that, that still uses Ethereum’s security model for storing that data. Or very similar to the Ethereum security model, I should say. Doing this allows us to dramatically reduce the gas fees of L2s while still maintaining the security of Ethereum. In Mantle we partnered with the EigenLayer team. To do that the way that it works at EigenLayer is if you run a validator, you receive a liquid staking token, typically from Lido Coinbase rocket pool, and you can restake your liquid staking token on your validator and also provide functionality to an additional protocol. So if you run an Ethereum node, you can also run an Eigen DA node. And that Eigen DA node, if you do something malicious or you don’t provide data that you were supposed to be storing, then your stake is slashed on L1. So this is a way of aligning the incentives of other protocols around the L1. And for people who are running ETH Validators, the restaking mechanisms allow you to do more with your validator and to provide greater security, greater extensibility, and to earn on all those different or protocols that you’re contributing to. 

Matt Zahab 
I love that. Let’s end on a non crypto native notes. For the listeners do go follow Jacobc.eth. Great follow on Twitter. I also love when crypto people don’t just post about crypto, Jacob is one of them. One of the things that you continuously post about, which I feel like all of us should be more concerned about, but candidly, we’re not. And that topic is organic regenerative farming. You post about this on Twitter all the time and there’s some really good shit on it that you post. What make you so passionate about this? What gets you so fired up? Why are you so intrigued by organic regenerative farming? 

Jacobc.eth
Yeah, so I think healing the relationship between humans and agriculture is probably like the most important change that we can make for the future of humanity. A lot of the Bitcoiners well, I’m definitely not a Bitcoin maximalist. There’s been a lot of interest pointing out that the food system we have today is what people call like a FIAT food system, where the incentives around agriculture are to grow food that is destroying our planet. The incentives are to take government subsidies and to grow cereal grains like corn, wheat, soy. These are genetically modified. Like, the soybean is then sprayed with roundup. And if you go to any of the places where these are produced, I think most people, they live in cities and they’ve never experienced this, but these fields are dead. They are massive sterile places of death. And the soil is repeatedly plowed over and over and sprayed with chemicals over and over and is becoming sterile. The topsoil is depleting and our ability to grow and produce food in this food system is declining. Regenerative agriculture instead creates holistic systems and relationships between plants and animals. And the land that mimics how this happened in nature. So historically, like, North America has some of the best topsoil in the world. And the reason that it has that is because bison, there were probably there are some scientific estimates that there were three times more bison than there are cows in North America today. And these bison were massive roaming herds that tore up the land, that added manure, and that created a fermentation process that created all of that rich topsoil that we are extracting and depleting today. And so regenerative agriculture is like, let’s take ruminant animals like cows, sheep, bison, and let’s move them like they were being herded by predators in the past, and let’s start that fermentation process back, regenerate the soil. And actually, the regenerative agriculture process pulls more carbon out of the atmosphere into the soil than it emits. So it’s actually a carbon negative form of farming. People can actually there were scientific studies that were done on White Oak Pastures, which is a regenerative agriculture farm in Georgia. That farm produces grass fed grass, finished beef, lamb, pasture raised pork, duck, chickens. And they have tons of animals, rabbits. And these animals live in a holistic relationship with the land. And that farm sequesters more carbon than it produces. And interestingly enough, regenerative farms can actually increase the density of animals because your regenerating the soil, so you’re not depleting and killing the soil. Like, if you just take a plot of land and you just put cows on it and you just leave it there, they’ll eventually overgraze it and kill the land. If instead we move animals in ways that are that simulate nature. We can really regenerate that land and then even people can buy like dead patches of land and do this in a way where they regenerate the land and the land becomes lush and beautiful and there’s plant and animal life and wildlife that wasn’t there before. So I’m really passionate about those things. There’s a really great and I’ve been a contributor to it Regen Network. 

Matt Zahab 
It’s called Regen Network? 

Jacobc.eth
Yeah, it’s a protocol all that does verified outcomes. It does verified environmental outcomes. And people can buy carbon credits and things like that to help fund regenerative farms or people that are helping forests or helping aquatic wildlife, all kinds of things like that. If people are really interested in this, I would encourage people to try out Eat Wild. It’s a platform where you can find local farms that raise animals in regenerative ways or really start to learn and understand the soil and the environment and how all these things are related. I think that we need to fix not only the financial system, but we have to fix our relationship with nature. And all of those things are really deeply connected. And blockchains are about restoring the fundamentals of life. And that kind of a transition I’m really excited about. And I think it’s the most important thing we can do to further the future of the planet. 

Matt Zahab 
I love that. Great concluding note there. Jacob, this was a treat. You taught me a ton, and I’m sure our listeners also learned a ton here as well. Before you go, can you please let our listeners know where they can find you and all of your ventures, Mantle, GAME7, Hyperplay, MetaMask and everything else that you have your feet into at the moment. 

Jacobc.eth 
Of course. So I’m on Twitter I’m @jacobc_eth. You can also check out Mantle at mantle.xyz. You can check out Hyperplay at hyperplay.xyz. I’m super excited to talk. Feel free to reach out. 

Matt Zahab 
Hit him up anytime. Jacob, thank you so much. We definitely 100% need to do a round two as we barely scratch the surface. Folks, keep an eye out for that over the next couple months as we will have Jacob C on for round two. Until then, thank you again mates, wishing you and your ventures all the best and we will keep in touch. 

Jacobc.eth 
Thank you so much, Matt. 

Matt Zahab 
Folks, what an episode with Jacobc.eth dropping knowledge bombs left, right and center. Anything innovation, infrastructure, ecosystem, security, decentralized. He was on fire about it and I loved the ending with some very important organic regenerative farming as well. If you guys enjoy this one, I hope you did, please do subscribe. It would mean the world to my team and I. Speaking to the team, love you guys, thank you so much for everything. You are truly the best. Justas my amazing sound editor appreciate you. And to the listeners, love you guys. Thank you so much for everything. Keep on growing those bags and keep on staying healthy, wealthy, and happy. Bye for now and we’ll talk soon.