Bobby Zagotta, CEO of Bitstamp, on Bitcoin ETF, The Halving, DeFi for Capital Markets, and 2024 Predictions | Ep. 304

 

In an exclusive interview with cryptonews.com, Bobby Zagotta, US CEO & Chief Commercial Officer at Bitstamp, talks about the Bitcoin ETF, the halving, 2024 predictions, and Bitstamps’ 2024 plans.

About Bobby Zagotta

Bobby Zagotta is the US CEO & Chief Commercial Officer at Bitstamp. He came to Bitstamp from Kraken, where he served as Chief Commercial Officer responsible for strategy, business development, marketing, M&A, research and analytics, and global growth initiatives. Before that, he was a Senior Managing Director, Strategy & Execution and a member of the Executive Team for CME Group Inc., a global, publicly traded financial exchange.

As CEO for the Americas and Global Chief Commercial Officer at Bitstamp, Bobby is responsible for strategy and growing our presence and business globally, as well as overseeing day-to-day operations in the Americas.

Bobby Zagotta gave a wide-ranging exclusive interview, which you can see below, and we are happy for you to use it for publication, provided there is a credit to www.cryptonews.com.

Highlights Of The Interview

• Bitcoin ETF – represents a compelling gateway for investors to initiate their foray into the realm of cryptocurrency
• 2024 predictions – more institutions, more legitimacy, less high risk
• The halving – Bitcoin will see the block reward fall from 6.25 to 3.125 bitcoins
• Present state of bitcoin – still bullish with bitcoin ETF + the upcoming halving event
• Bitstamp 101 – onboarding worldwide financial institutions to lead transformational change at the enterprise level

Full Transcript Of The Interview

Matt Zahab
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Cryptonews Podcast. We are buzzing as always, still coming in hot from Mexico. And I’m super pumped to have the one and only Bobby Zagotta back on for round two. He crushed it the first time. It was too good. We had to have him on for round two and today we have him. Even though you guys know who he is, I’m going to give him one intro just to tickle all of your fancies. We got Bobby Zagotta on the show today. As I said, US CEO and Chief Commercial Officer at Bitstamp. Before Bitstamp, he came from Kraken where he served as Chief Commercial Officer responsible for strategy, business, marketing, M&A, research, analytics, global growth, a bit of everything. Before that, he was Senior Managing Director of Strategy and Execution and a member of the executive team at the CME Group, a global publicly traded financial exchange. As CEO of the Americas and Global Chief Commercial Officer at Bitstamp, Bobby is responsible for strategy and growing the presence and business globally, as well as overseeing day to day ops in the Americas, super tied into everything regulatory, Bitcoin ETF, and crypto as a whole. Super pumped to have you back on. Bobby, welcome back to show my friend. How you Doing?

Bobby Zagotta
Awesome. It’s great to be here. And I wish I was in Mexico with you. That would be even better

Matt Zahab
I know, before the show, you and I were shooting the show a little. You are also a big fan of Cenotes. How incredible are Cenotes? What a treat they are.

Bobby Zagotta
You know, we stumbled on them on a trip a few years back where it was on the side of a highway. And I was like, what is this? And we pulled off and it changed my life. It was like getting into another world. And then we became quite focused on them. And we hit them all over the area when we were down there by Playa Del Carmen. And yeah, they’re amazing. They’re absolutely amazing.

Matt Zahab
It’s crazy. Mexico is one of these places, the more time you spend here, the more just insane you realize it is. They have these Cenotes everywhere, and I could be wrong. I don’t even know if there’s one Cenote in USA.I’m pretty darn sure there’s none in Canada. We have some beautiful lakes, like obviously BAMP with that turquoise, baby blue glacier like with the mountains in the background. It’s absolutely stunning. One of the few countries you have that. But Mexico has the Cenotes. They have all these ruins, they have the day of the dead. You have Chichen Itza, which is the pyramid that just like, how the hell was that thing built? No one knows. It’s a pretty wild place, and it would be pretty sweet. Any chance Bitstamp throws up a Playa Del Carmen office? Would you let your boy run that one for you?

Bobby Zagotta
Absolutely, yeah, I’ll put that on the agenda.

Matt Zahab
Crypto in Mexico. Funny note, Crypto in Mexico, I was here last year as well. And the amount of places that now accept Bitcoin and Tether is actually pretty wild. It’s still not a lot, but when you take a walk down Fifth Ave, you’re seeing a hell of a lot more last weekend, you know, spend some time out with friends, bunch of Argentinians, and they were telling us as well, and Buenos Aires almost 25%, 33% of places now accept Tether and Bitcoin as well, because the currency is so bad. And it’s pretty wild to think about.

Bobby Zagotta
Yeah, no, I think about it a lot. I mean, Latin America has a different use case basically and it’s a natural fit because of what you mentioned. The economic environment there and the level of trust in their institutions is very different than in the US or Canada, right? So here I think people look at Bitcoin as recreational or a potential investment, et cetera. But in many parts of Latin America, it’s much more than that. It’s a lifeline and it’s a means for very hardworking people to preserve their wealth versus watch it tumble in value based on bad policies or bad institutions or other factors. So yeah, I am not surprised to see that it’s becoming a little bit more an element of commerce there and I’m super excited about it.

Matt Zahab
It’s another wild thing too. We were with a group of Argentinians. 80% of them had a crypto app on their phone. Most of them had Binance, but that’s literally what they use. Like when they get paid here in Mexico, they get paid, they transfer over to Binance, transfer it to another account and withdrawal and the blue dollar, whatever the heck that is in Argentina. I don’t even know. There’s like a regular Argentinian peso, then a blue dollar and a regular dollar. It couldn’t really, anyways, we were sort of into one as well. So we won’t dive into that, but just always interesting to think because when I’m in Toronto or with family and friends or visiting family and friends in the States and unless I’m with someone who is orange-pilled and is in the crypto sphere, like no one ever messes around on a day to day basis. And we have people here where it’s become part of the life. So pretty darn cool to see. But Bobby, you just jumped into Bitcoin there. I think we must. It would be a disservice to not jump into this. We had the Bitcoin ETF. The news was great, but the price action and sentiment is not exactly what we wanted to see.

Bobby Zagotta
Yeah, I mean, well, firstly, there’s no underestimating what a historic event this is. And a lot of people are saying this, but it really is true. This is a level of credibility and validation that has been lacking globally and specifically in the US. So that is super significant. And then of course, the access by new segments, segments who have been on the sidelines and waiting for the regulatory cover and kind of the process that they’re familiar with, such as an ETF process. That just represents a lot more capital coming into the ecosystem, which creates momentum and creates opportunities. So super positive and super historic. Now, I didn’t expect a massive spike in Bitcoin price or in all of our volumes, et cetera, as much as I expected supported growth over the next few quarters. Because if you are a pension fund or a large asset manager who has been waiting for this moment to get involved, it’s not like you just flip a switch. There’s work to do there. And to get all of the kind of research done and positioning with their customers and whatnot. And so I expect that the real benefit here will be felt over a period of time. And same thing on the retail side, like the direct retail side, this is noteworthy for them to, even if they’re not as likely to buy ETF shares as they are to go on an exchange and buy Bitcoin directly and want to hold it and want to custody the actual asset. I think many of them see this as like, all right, I’ve been maintaining a sliver of investment here, but now it’s time to increase and to double down a bit. So yeah, from a Bit stand perspective, we’re definitely feeling it in terms of being a primary liquidity provider for many of the authorized participants or authorized partners for that ecosystem. And we’re excited about it. I think the price action with Bitcoin right now is just a little bit of a hangover from, perhaps inflated expectations that it was going to be a massive spike in bull rally.

Matt Zahab
I’ve been seeing so many rumors online and again, you gotta take these with a grain of salt, but I’m sure you’ve heard about this grayscale price action where it’s like so many people are getting out of grayscale and for that to happen, they need to sell Bitcoin, therefore price of Bitcoin is dropping so then they can get into the ETFs. Is any of this true or is this all just blah?

Bobby Zagotta
I don’t know. I’ve seen those rumors as well. And I don’t, I think any kind of new major, multi-billion dollar investment tool and or ecosystem is going to have to find its sea level, if you will, because there’s a lot of new entrants and there’s a lot of people who’ve been waiting for this moment to get out and other things. So I don’t put much credence into long-term effects or market flaws, if you will. I just think it’s gotta find its C level and then start growing.

Matt Zahab
Yeah, well said there. I’d love if you could talk about Bitstamps’ relationship with the ETF providers and how you guys are, again, just really providing regulatory light, not just for lack of better words, qualitative help, a quantitative help. You guys are a reputable exchange, obviously, and you’re supplying a lot of market data, a lot of surveillance to these ETF providers. They’re coming to you for advice. How are you guys working with them? How is this whole relationship, working on your end of the spectrum?

Bobby Zagotta
Yeah, it’s working very well. And to your point, when a particular authorized partner is servicing BlackRock or a very large scale, super reputable ETF provider or issuer, it does raise the stakes for them a little bit to make sure everything’s buttoned up and that there’s no undo or unnecessary regulatory risk or other things. So Bitstamp comes to the fore in those situations typically because we have in general the most extensive licensing footprint and we’ve got a level of governance and in our company that’s not typical in the space. So you’ve heard me say some of this, but seven years of global financial audits by a big four accounting firm, that just doesn’t exist in the space.

Matt Zahab
It doesn’t grow on trees.

Bobby Zagotta
Yeah, all kinds of ISO and other designations that we’ve got super professional governance, independent boards for all the entities. And it’s very much a compliance forward company and a compliance forward firm. And in the ETF side of the marketplace, that’s more important than it is on perhaps just the trading or speculating side. So yeah, we’re positioned very well as a liquidity provider for authorized partners to these issuers and certainly feeling that in a positive way in terms of volumes and opportunities related to it. Obviously the market is in this kind of funny moment right now, but still much better condition in my estimation than this time last quarter. When we were in kind of September, October, that was a very subdued market. And this is already a step function better than that.

Matt Zahab
Yeah, it’s true. I’d love to just keep us on this subject for a bit more and then we’ll get into some other stuff But I did tell the story on the pod a couple pods ago and I just love your two cents on this my buddy was at Atlanta Airport and flight got delayed had to go to a different terminal. And in two different terminals he saw an ad I want to say one was from grayscale and one was from or not grayscale one was from Valkyrie and the other may have been from BlackRock or someone else. But these ETFs are already pumping out ads in places with stupendous amount of foot traffic like Atlanta Airport, which is a Canadian I’m not sure but I’m pretty sure it might be the busiest airport in close to the world if not USA which is crazy. If you’re a consumer or if you’re a fund manager or or even just a financial advisor. And you’re getting your high net worth clients into these exchange or into these ETFs. Is it a simple pick is like a go for whoever has the lowest fee go for whoever’s doing the most social good and giving back 10 ticks to the Bitcoin miners like how do you feel about the ads already being out? I friggin love it personally and two if you were to advise, you know a consumer on which one to choose. What would what would you do and how would you tell them, you know the right one to pick?

Bobby Zagotta
Yeah, no, great question. I’m also excited to see the ads. And these guys have had a few years to prepare, unfortunately, because the approval took so long. But yeah, I think a lot of people, just individual consumers, as well as investment professionals working for companies, when they see ETF, it is familiar to them as their own kind of thumbprint. And so, they’ve probably been thinking, I really am curious about Bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies. I really would like to add something to my portfolio that is a little bit less correlated, perhaps, to the stock market. But you know what, I’m not gonna take the time to figure out how to custody this and how to do it safely, which platform to operate in. I’m not gonna spend that kind of time. But when they see an ETF opportunity, they’re like, okay, now I’m ready. This makes it easy for me. I’ve already got gold ETFs, and I’ve already done this. I’ve been just a well trod path for me. I’m just gonna add Bitcoin to it and get my feet wet. So that’s kind of the macro sediment, obviously. But within that, there’s a lot of different types of players. To your point, some who might like, hey, that’s a cool ad, I’m gonna go with Valkyrie. Others who might be like, you know what? The only thing that’s meaningful to me is BlackRock or Fidelity. Like guys who are at such a scale and at such a reputation that I feel very safe. So I’m just gonna go there. And then I think there’s a significant part of the kind of target segment here that just wants to learn and wants to do the research. And what I would recommend to answer your question is, yeah, look at the prospectus. You understand the differences in pricing. I’ve seen some good articles that lay it all out, all the different offerings, and make a decision. I think they’re all, if they’re approved, which they are, that means that they’re fairly safe and reliable. And so I think you can have the luxury of choice, but do the homework and see which one feels right to you.

Matt Zahab
Yeah DYOR, do your own research, one of the best, but most underused acronyms in all of crypto and investing. Let’s keep buzzing on Bitcoin, the halving. Everyone thinks April, to look in like April, if we go on this sort of current trend that we’re at, I’ve had some incredible guests on the Podcast over the last three months. And I wanna say it’s almost, three years ago, this would have been 100% as in the halving is going to be the best thing ever for Bitcoin. Now I’d say it’s almost 75, 25, 80, 20, maybe even 66, 33. A lot of folks, people who I trust and people who are much smarter than me and much more switched on in this space, are in the camp of it’s not going to have the biggest impact as it has over the last couple of halvings. What’s your take on this? Or is it still gonna help? Is this overvalued? Is it already priced in? What’s gonna happen with the halving? And I guess by the time this episode airs, really three months give or take.

Bobby Zagotta
I do think it’s gonna help, but I also agree with what you’re saying. It’s a little bit different sediment today than perhaps it felt like a few years ago. And I think that’s mostly a function of the space maturing. And people, particularly given the kind of tumultuous ride over the last 18 months, you know, are a little bit less ready to hype stuff, hype event driven stuff, and rather focus on the more fundamental aspects of this now fairly mature marketplace. And so I don’t think that’s negative or positive, but I think that’s, you know, that’s what’s playing out here. And that’s how I think about it. I cannot fully understand the relationship between the halving and the market effect. I can’t map it, but I can appreciate history, right? And the history is quite clear and quite compelling about the relationship between halving and price increase for Bitcoin, usually with about a six month gap, right? But between those two things. So I’m not one to count it out, but I’m also not one to ever assume some kind of flipping of the switch, spike, bull run, you know, everything changes. I just think it’s going to be another brick in the wall, if you will, of the foundation of a solid and growing marketplace. And so yeah, I’m enthusiastic. I think in addition to, you know, the ETF and more institutional involvement, et cetera, it’s just going to be a momentum creator, which is good.

Matt Zahab
Yeah, it’s exactly what we need. Last time we spoke, you did call this. And you did say that the Bitcoin ETF did need to happen. And if it did, it would have positive impact on the market. And from a sentiment perspective, I believe it has, obviously the price has fallen. Do we know if it’s exactly from that? Could it be grayscale? Could it be something else? None of us will ever know. What else needs to happen, Bobby, from a perhaps regulatory standpoint? Is there one of the few people who actually have the wherewithal and the experience and the switched on is to comment on this. Are there any other regulatory steps or building blocks that need to happen, short-term, long-term, for this momentum to really keep building? Any events, perhaps the election in November, is there anything else that could really help us that might be coming up in the next 3, 6, 9, 12 months?

Bobby Zagotta
Yes, absolutely. And, but I’ll start in the negative, right? So the uncertainty, this is my feeling, the uncertainty related to regulation in the US and the macro political environment in the US because the election is coming up. That uncertainty is really, I think, an anchor or a bit of a drag on progress and momentum in the marketplace today. So, my hope is that there can be some positive movement on regulation in the US this year. Now, that’s a tall order, given it’s an election year and everything. I certainly wouldn’t say it’s a given, but I’m wondering if Congress can act on stable coins, for instance, one piece of the puzzle that is super relevant right now and in my estimation, easier to operate on from a legal framework perspective. That would really help. That would really be another momentum booster. And then the election is gonna happen one way or another in November. And will that be favorable to the market or not? We don’t know, but what we do know or what we believe is that clarity, more certainty is gonna help one way or another. We’re seeing this in Europe already. So in Europe, I’m just the regulatory front, they’re a little bit ahead in my estimation, right? Because the European Union has adopted the MiCA framework which will come into play at the end of the year. And that certainty or that clarity is allowing more institutions in particular, but more individuals as well get involved with a level of comfort and a level of confidence. And it’s starting to shape the conversations there in a way that’s not happening here yet. And how we’re feeling that mostly is, for instance, we have this white label offering, good stamp as a service, I think I mentioned to you last time, but it’s focused on institutions, banks and fintechs. And those companies are quite, we’re engaged with many of them right now who want to be able to offer crypto services to their customers for all the obvious reasons. Like they don’t want their customers leaving their ecosystem or their app to buy some Bitcoin. They’d rather keep them in their ecosystem and offer that service, but they’re not gonna build it at this stage. So they turn to a very regulated, long track record, very reliable technology kind of company, like Bitstamp to help provide that. In the US, banking and crypto are not sympatico today. And there’s a lot of frictions that have been put in place. And so it’s just at a very different spot. So to answer your question, if we could get a little bit more regulatory clarity in the US, that’s the missing link, if you will, for me, to really get the entire global marketplace to a next level.

Matt Zahab
Yeah, it’s true. What’s that famous quote? If you don’t know the rules, you can’t play the game, something like that. Again, if there’s no rules, the big boys can’t get in. Do you guys white labeling that’s, I know we did discuss this a little bit last time, but I’d love to jump back into this. What exactly are you just really giving them exactly what they’re looking for? And I understand that this, you know, it doesn’t happen that much in the US it’s more Bitstamp global. As you just discussed because of the regulatory shit show in the States, but is this just financial extitute or institution X, Y or Z coming in and saying we want to keep, you know, we want to keep our people in our ecosystem and we need solution ABC. And you guys go look, we are, you know, we’re KYC’d and regulatory it up to Yin Yang and we’re going to give you what you want. You give it to them. They slap their label on it and boom, it’s just a good product, good relationships. That’s how it works for lack of better understanding.

Bobby Zagotta
Yeah I mean, in essence or at its core, it’s exactly that. But there’s a couple of nuances. First of all, we have different levels of offering. Some are like, you know, full white label, turnkey solution that a bank can just adopt. Others are kind of gradations of it. But what’s notable is, you know, these are some of the largest global banks in the world based in Europe that we’re in deep conversations with about this. And so, you know, that’s very noteworthy when you think about the overall crypto ecosystem. And these banks, of course, I can’t speak for them, but based on the work that we are proposing to do with them, you know, it’s exactly that. They want to be able to enable their millions of customers to just simply buy and sell, you know, it’s nothing exotic, but buy and sell, you know, the majors, the major cryptocurrencies in a simple, safe, reliable way. And so, you know, we’re kind of in Europe in particular, which is our home base and our, you know, kind of strongest marketplace. We’re a pretty obvious choice for that. And we’re excited. And there’s other related, you know, flavors of this, including with payments providers, you know, we’re in conversations with a couple of the world’s largest payment providers because they want to make it easier for their millions of clients to utilize crypto in their payments processes. And so, you know, these, if you just take those two, you know, possibilities, you know, that could really in Europe take the entire ecosystem, you know, to a next level. So, I’m anxious to, you know, for the rest of the world and specifically the US to get caught up.

Matt Zahab
Well said there. Bob we gotta take a quick break to give a huge shout out to our sponsor of the show. When we get back, we are going to keep diving into everything Bitstamp related. Until then, huge shout out to our sponsor of the show that is PrimeXBT, longtime friends of cryptonews.com and longtime sponsors of the Cryptonews Podcast. PrimeXBT offers a robust trading system for both beginners and professional traders. It doesn’t matter if you’re a rookie or a vet, you can easily design and customize your layouts and widgets to best fit your trading style. PrimeXBT is also running an exclusive promotion for listeners of the Cryptonews Podcast. Use the promo code, CRYPTONEWS50 to receive 50% of your deposit credited to your trading account. Again, that is CRYPTONEWS50 to receive 50% of your deposit credited to your trading account. And jumping back in. I was going to ask you about consensus, but I saw you take a big swig of what I assume is water out of that super nice looking bottle. Are you on the Stanley wave? Are you on the Stanley wave that’s absolutely blown up everywhere? Have you heard about this nonsense?

Bobby Zagotta
I don’t think I have. But it is water. Is that what it’s about?

Matt Zahab
I mean, this is like, this is pretty, you know, it’s TikToky, Instagramy, trendiness Stanley the cup company, the Tumblr, you know, keep your drink cold or warm. They’re thermos, yeah, they’re absolutely blowing up for no good reason. Just, it’s one of those things where it’s just like, in today’s day and age, you get lucky for going viral. I had to ask if you had one. I don’t have one. I’m seeing people down here, mostly American and Canadian tourists, you know, showing off multiple Stanley mugs. It’s like, it’s like wearing a Rolex now to show it’s crazy. Some lady in California stole like 60 of them and was going to resell them on like just nonsense. Little off topic, but I guess one more thing on that note is you and I are hockey fans. The Stanley cup for the first time and like, you know, since SEO was invented in, I don’t know, the late nineties got outranked. So when you search Stanley cup, it is no longer Lord Stanley, the, you know, the hardest trophy to win in all of sports for hockey, the national hockey league. Now you have some crummy tumbler. Just what is our world succumbing to?

Bobby Zagotta
That is wrong on so many levels. I don’t even know where to start.

Matt Zahab
Brutal. Let’s jump back in. As my duty, I always have to lurk my guest Twitter. And a couple days ago, you fired off a tweet that you are excited to share, that you are proposing a panel, DeFi for Capital Markets at Consensus. This seems super cool. You guys are obviously in the DeFi space as well, and especially in capital markets. That’s where we can really move the needle, not just retail. I feel like most of DeFi’s retail at the moment. Part of that is because, again, the complexities, the nuances, the account abstraction, it’s such a nightmare. It is truly just horrendously difficult to use. I’ll never forget the first time I dabbled with MetaMask or tried bridging coins or did anything of the like. It was nightmare fuel in the purest sense. What exactly is this DeFi for Capital Markets panel that you are proposing at Consensus 2024?

Bobby Zagotta
Yeah, it’s really interesting and I couldn’t agree more. It’s kind of like, I think the right topic for this time for 2024. There’s so many dimensions to the DeFi opportunity and ecosystem, but the thing that is a still, a common denominator is it’s just a little bit too hard for institutions and individuals to participate. And it’s associated with risk also, so I think it’s a little bit different kind of risk profile than operating with a centralized exchange or other platform, and that requires more education. So the real question here is, when does that really quite incredibly innovative space, the DeFi space become more legit and integrated with the rest of the traditional financial services, capital markets space? And I don’t think that’s gonna happen tomorrow, but I think it’s something that we need to be thinking about and talking about. So some very smart people put together this concept and this panel and were nice enough to include me in it. And, but yeah, super excited, but I guess we have to be chosen, right? It has to be somebody, people have to go and vote for this panel. So I encourage your audience to do that.

Matt Zahab
On the subject of 2024 trends, speaking of trends, are there any other trends, micro, macro, will stay away from any of the price prediction nonsense? But are there any other trends that are really getting you going again, or not even a month into the year? A lot of people, myself included, are bullish for a lack of better terms on this year. We have a lot of things that went in the right direction. Of course, the ETF just popped off. It should be good. The Fed also sort of said that there will be some rate cuts this year, and that usually goes hand in hand with good things for the economy. What trends do you see for 2024 that could take us in the right direction?

Bobby Zagotta
I definitely agree with those couple. And then what I would add to that is, you know, there’s, what we’re seeing at Bitstamp is really strong onboarding for institutions and for retail investors. And that’s always a leading indicator of confidence in the marketplace. So even during the last half of 2023, we saw a lot of increases in onboarding, even though the marketplace was tough, the volatility was quite low. And to me, that’s like, okay, people are getting ready, particularly institutions, you know, there’s some lead time there once they get onboarded, integrated, et cetera. And so far in 2024, that’s, it’s accelerated. So, and, you know, November, December, January have been really good volatility months, which is a big part of it. But also I think the, this wave of adoption that I believe we are embarking on here in 2024 is a little bit different investor, whether it’s an institution or an individual, it’s a little bit different mindset. They’re not the pioneers, right? They’re not the super comfortable with risk perspectives. They’re arguably the fast followers or the followers, right? Once the path has been paved over a bit, now they’re getting involved. And what they care about is a little bit different than what the first couple of waves care about, right? They’re not all about whiz bang, you know, Silicon Valley tech kind of mindset. They’re about like, is it safe? Who’s the right partner? You know, what I’m gonna, I’m not afraid to do my homework, you know, kind of it’s a different audience. And I think a little bit more conservative in many respects. And so that’s where, you know, companies that Bitstamp our position quite well, because it’s, you know, there’s, there’s a little bit of a fight to quality, you know, still happening given the Binance situation and of course the, you know, the FTX and the other situations prior to that. So this next, the other trend is this next wave of adoption is gonna be different. More hedge funds, more asset managers, more traditional financial services companies, not just hardcore traders. And, I think probably a little bit different demographic of individuals involved, which is great. The other trend I would mention is more generational, right? So I’ve been reading a lot lately about, about wealth transfer. And, you know, we are in the midst of the largest wealth transfer generationally from one generation to another in history of the world, right? So, and it’s something like 10 trillion, you know, dollars of value or something that’s going to move, you know, from essentially the baby boom generation to, you know, younger generations that are, you know, either crypto native or super mobile adaptive and people who can naturally relate to the idea of digital money versus where all the money’s fitting right now with the older generations where it’s not as natural for them to relate to digital money and all the possibilities associated with it. So that’s another thing that’s not gonna just play out in 2024 is gonna play out over the next several years, but it’s real and it’s big.

Matt Zahab
That’s, I always forget about this well transfer thing. It’s crazy. Like it really is, and I guess it’s my, would it be my generation as someone who’s born in 95 who is like, we’re the ones getting all this money now, right? It’s coming from our parents and my parents, parents, my grandparents, I mean, one left. But, you know, it is my generation, the millennials who are about to get all this cake, right? Exactly.

Bobby Zagotta
Exactly, and Gen Z also, but millennials primarily. And it’s, I think part of it is also the baby boom generation has lived longer than past generations because of all the advances in healthcare and fitness, et cetera. So they’ve held on to it longer too, so it’s more pent up. Yeah, I mean, like we’ve got an election coming up. We might have two 80 year old guys that we’re, you know, having to choose between in the US. Like how does that happen? You know, this generation really clings to stuff. And I sometimes like to see them retire and take a well-deserved break on a beach somewhere, maybe in Playa del Carmen.

Matt Zahab
That’d be great. Well, I mean, I know this isn’t a political podcast, but, you know, we got a drama teacher running our country. So it’s a, you can’t win them all. That’s a little off topic, but that’s something I often think about too, where it’s like the incentives of being at the top of the political food chain. I feel like with social media and everything else, the cons almost outweigh the pros nowadays. And again, obviously, and for the states for you guys, it’s most powerful, arguably best country in the world. Most freedom you guys, once you’re present of the United States, you are truly a geopolitical figure. You’re one of the most powerful people in the world until the day you die. And then your family gets to bear those fruits as well. But it’s like, why aren’t more quality people wanting to do this? Like, and use this social good, I feel like it’s, you know, it’s changed. And it’s like, Oh, I’d rather be an influencer or be a TikToker or be rich, you know, it’s like, we need more people to get into, to get into high level politics and, and actually move the needle. And I know in Canada, we have, I’m not as, I don’t follow the states, obviously, as much as I follow my own country, but we literally have zero people in the pipeline, Bobby. And to my knowledge, in the States, you guys don’t have a whole lot of people either. And it’s something that sort of baffles my mind. Why wouldn’t you want to be the most powerful person in the world? It seems like a pretty frigging cool game, you know?

Bobby Zagotta
I know, I think about this a lot. And I think it’s true what you’re saying. I think for many potential great leaders, you know, and people who perhaps have a passion for that kind of social role and leadership opportunity, I think they get, you know, first of all, great opportunities in the business world, you know, and arguably the business world is another great leadership opportunity, you know, that it’s a capital L, if you can progress, it’s a really worthy and noble leadership opportunity, but very different than government. But it doesn’t come with all the cons of government like you alluded to, you know, it’s not, I’m sure, I haven’t done it, of course, but, you know, any kind of political role, you know, it’s not for the faint of heart, right? You get criticized, you know, 10 times a minute and your family gets scrutinized and, you know, your privacy is gone. And, you know, there’s a lot of cost. You gotta really want it and really believe, but because of this, I do fear that we don’t have the pipeline either. You know, it’s a little bit more complicated in this, I don’t know the Canadian frame of reference well, but in the States it’s quite complicated, you know, because I think there’s a lot of, you know, back room deal making where, you know, where perhaps the talent can’t break in. The talent, you know, maybe has a hard time bringing us a little bit too old school networks, et cetera. But I don’t know.

Matt Zahab
Yeah, no, just building on your point about business. It’s like, if you can be a powerful businessman or woman and take a company public, make a couple of billion dollars, once you have a couple of billion, like there’s not much you can’t do in this world. You wanna buy an island, you wanna spend 500, you know, mil on a yacht, go for it. Like what can you not do, right? Wanna just fly private on multiple jets, wanna own a sports team. You can do whatever the hell you want without all the public scrutiny. So it’s like, it comes down to anything else in life. Life’s all about incentives. And I feel like we need to better incentivize, you know, the most powerful position in the world. But, you know, this isn’t the New York Times political podcast. So we’ll jump back to the crypto stuff. Bitstamp, you guys are shipping, you guys are always shipping. You guys are the king of shippers, just pumping out products at a crazy rate. We’d love to see that. What else do you guys have on the docket? I know you probably can’t tell me most of it, but of the things you can tell me, give me some gold here, Bobby. What are you guys up to over the next couple of months in 2024 for Bitstamp?

Bobby Zagotta
Sure. Well, we’re very excited. I’ll talk about retail and I’ll talk about institutions. Yeah, on the retail side, in 2023, we launched a new app experience that really is targeted at the types of users we were talking about earlier, this next wave of adoption. So, it’s a simple buy-sell experience, but it’s connected to our Learn Center so that people, it was a place people can go get educated in a very kind of bite-size and objective way, and then do simple transactions. And it’s in contrast to our Pro app, which is advanced order types and it’s really geared more towards traders and people who are very acquainted with the marketplace. So, that’s been great. We also have a lending offering available, not in the US, not in the UK, but in Europe and in Asia. It’s an opportunity for users to lend their crypto into a marketplace that is very highly organized and regulated and transparent so that they can earn a return or yield on that crypto. And this space a couple of years ago in the crypto ecosystem was a disaster. And, but it’s a place where Bitstamp can bring the Bitstamp version of it, which is regulated, transparent and super reliable. And so, that has grown quite a bit for us in its instance inception at the middle of last year. So, we are very excited about those two opportunities, fueling growth in 2024. We also think there’s some really interesting token projects out there, and we’re quite discerning about what we list on Bitstamp, but we think there’s some really interesting token projects out there that we’re evaluating. On the institutional side, we will have a fairly major announcement coming soon, but suffices to say, we want to give our institutional participants more ways to participate in crypto markets and participate with Bitstamp in our kind of safe, reliable way in crypto markets. So, that’s a primary focus with us. I wish I could tell you more, but coming soon. And then we’ve also launched an OTC offering in 2023 that we’re growing now. So, there’s an RFQ platform and also kind of a facilitation desk. So, this is, we just get a lot of requests from our client base and people who crypto whales or others who want to move size, and they’re smart enough about markets to know that that needs to be done in an orderly way, and we can make that turnkey for them. So, those are a few things we’re excited about.

Matt Zahab
Love that. Bobby, always appreciate you coming on man. We have a blast together and you always make my head spin in the best ways possible. Always leave me with some homework to do and I’m sure our listeners feel the same way. Appreciate you as always. Before you go, can you please let our listeners know where they can find you and Bitstamp online and on socials?

Bobby Zagotta
Yeah, we were very active on X and on LinkedIn from a social media standpoint as am I. And that’s our primary focus from a social media standpoint.

Matt Zahab
And folks, as always, I will plug everything and Bobby coming in hot with the X. Wow, I always ask Twitter. I still call Twitter. I’m trying. My name’s Twitter. I don’t call it X in or whatever. It’s always Twitter for me. The domain is nice. The x.com domain is nice, but it’s always Twitter. Bobby, thank you as always. Can’t wait for round three. And at your guys’ current clip, I’m sure that’ll be sooner rather than later. But thanks again, and we’ll talk soon.

Bobby Zagotta
Thank you, Matt. It’s been great.

Matt Zahab
Folks, what an episode with Bobby Zagotta. Always bring in the heat. We love having Bobby on as he gives us some gold every single time. We discussed everything Bitstamp related, Bitcoin ETF, the halving, DeFi for capital markets 2024, predictions, institutions, you name it. Huge shout out to Bobby and the team for making this happen. Listeners, if you guys enjoyed this one, and I hope you did, please do subscribe. It would mean the world to my team and I. Speaking with the team love you guys so much. Thank you for everything. Justas my amazing sound editor, you’re the GOAT. And back to the listeners. Love you guys. Keep on growing those bags and keep on staying healthy, wealthy and happy. Bye for now, and we’ll talk soon.