Aaron Kong, Growth & Strategy Lead at Osmosis Labs, on The Cosmos Ecosystem, Decentralized Exchanges, and Interoperability | Ep. 247

In an exclusive interview with cryptonews.com, Aaron Kong, Growth & Strategy Lead at Osmosis Labs, talks about Cosmos, Osmosis, how DEXes can outcompete centralized exchanges, and the future of blockchain interoperability and composability.

About Aaron Kong

Aaron Kong is the Growth & Strategy Lead at Osmosis Labs, where he spearheads growth initiatives and business development efforts. Osmosis Labs is the core team responsible for developing Osmosis, an appchain that serves as the DeFi hub for the Cosmos ecosystem.

Aaron Kong gave a wide-ranging exclusive interview which you can see below, and we are happy for you to use it for publication provided there is a credit to www.cryptonews.com. 

Highlights Of The Interview

  • Cosmos + Osmosis 101/overview
  • Mesh Security: Creating the ‘NATO of Web3’
  • ETH L2s/Rollups vs. Cosmos appchains
  • How DEXes can outcompete centralized exchanges
  • The future of blockchain interoperability and composability

 

 

 

Full Transcript Of The Interview

Matt Zahab 
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Cryptonews Podcast. We’re buzzing as always, and I’m super pumped to have today’s guests on the show. Coming in hot from the one and only Kentucky, the land of bourbon, horse racing, and college basketball we love to see it. Today we have Aaron Kong, Growth and Strategy Lead at Osmosis Labs, where he spearheads growth initiatives and business development efforts. Osmosis Labs is the core team responsible for developing Osmosis, an app chain that serves as the DeFi hub for the Cosmos ecosystem. And we love Cosmos on the Cryptonews Pod, so we love to see this. Super pumped to have you on Aaron Kong, welcome to the show my friend. 

Aaron Kong 
Thanks for having me. 

Matt Zahab 
Pumped to have you on Dude, why are you in Kentucky, if you don’t mind me asking. When you and I were shooting the ship before the show, I was like, Aaron, where are you at? Just because I always like to have a little more empathy, perhaps, towards my guests and put my feet in their shoes, see where they’re at, and you’re in kentucky what brings you there? 

Aaron Kong 
Well, really nothing. I just grew up around the area, my family’s in the area, and I just found a house that’s in Kentucky, and it was a good deal. So here I am. 

Matt Zahab 
Had to splurge. 

Aaron Kong 
Yeah it’s also just, like, a convenient location. 10 minutes from the gym, 10 minutes from the grocery store, and it’s just like a quiet area that I work from. Nothing really special here. 

Matt Zahab 
And you got the sweet home office as well, which never hurts. 

Aaron Kong 
Yeah, it’s really just my bedroom. This is the half of my bedroom. 

Matt Zahab 
Nice. I love that. I think a good place to start would be your journey into the crypto space. Why did you choose to get into crypto? And furthermore, why did you join Osmosis? And what makes you so infatuated by the one and only Cosmos ecosystem? 

Aaron Kong 
Yeah, so my journey into crypto kind of started in 2017. I had just a lot of my friends are gamer, nerds, professional gamer from 2010 to 2011. In World of Warcraft. I achieved rank one in the world in World of Warcraft, funny enough, which is I’m wearing this shirt, which is well, it’s not the World of Warcraft South Park shirt, but it is Cartman, who defeated the most powerful character in the World of Warcraft episode with his team. 

Matt Zahab 
That was one of the all time classic TV episodes, might I add all world. 

Aaron Kong 
I think it’s the greatest episode of all time out of anything that came out of the USA. So all my friends are just gamer nerds, and they found crypto in 2017, and they were telling me about it, and I kind of just researched and I dove in, never turned back. I was living in Tokyo at the time as well, and there are a lot of crypto community out there. bitcoin.com was based out there in Shibuya, Tokyo. They would have all these meetups at the Two Dogs Cafe, I believe it was like a pizza joint out in Rapungi, Tokyo. Met up with a lot of these people, became friends, and just really got obsessed with the idea of crypto. And ever since then, I just never looked back. Though I did take a hiatus during the bear market. That was a pretty rough time. Aside from the bear market, even I still kept up on TAS. I just wasn’t as in depth and just researching all day, every day like I used to. But then as things started pumping again, I just dove in, started researching DeFi. And Osmosis was the first DeFi experience that I actually stepped into. I had learned about and read about many other DeFi protocols and apps that you could earn on. But Osmosis was the first one that had a community that kind of facilitated a nice entry, kind of gave everyone tutorials, taught everyone how to get into it. So I was just really obsessed with Osmosis after they kind of the community was just very welcoming. And then ever since then, I just kept on grinding on Osmosis. 

Matt Zahab 
I love that we’re going to get into Cosmos and Osmosis in one quick, hot minute, but before I want to go back to World of Warcraft, how the hell did you get to being ranked number one? That’s absolutely absurd. That is bananas. Was there a training regimen? Was this just all natural Aaron Kong skill from day one? Did you just pop out of the womb a little gamer baby. How did you get so good at this game, which is also top five most popular game in the world? You ought to have some tricks up your sleeve. 

Aaron Kong 
I started off not very good, but I think when I started off, the community that I was in World of Warcraft were all the professionals as they were starting off. So it was really weird when I was like level 28, I ran into this guy from Plano, Texas, and his name was like Plano. And then a year later, he is top five players in the world at the same time. I’m like, this is so weird that we both start at the same time. We’re questing and leveling up together at level 28 as completely random news of one in 5 million players. And then we both happened to be top five in the world a year later. Back probably like two years later. But I think the timing that I got in was just very odd. And then the people that I was surrounded by in the video game kind of conveniently allowed me to have a group of friends and players that were just all skilled and then eventually it’s just like an attrition thing. So I played in a character called an enhancement Shaman, which is a pretty uncommon character at high levels. So I think one of my advantages was not only was I very good at this character, but people don’t really know how to face this character. Now, I don’t think I was the best in the world talent wise. A lot of my friends that are even pros right now and you go on World of Warcraft streams right now on Twitch, and they’re still playing, they are just leagues above me. But because I tended to not make mistakes because I was so used to my class and it was a character that was not commonly faced that I had an advantage, but also my teammates are just the best in the world. So what we were the best in was something called arena, which is 3v3 or 5v5 and 3v3 is the most popular one and we were ranked one in the world at 3v3. So it’s basically three characters for three characters. 

Matt Zahab 
Wow. Any training regimens? Like, were you, like thumb workouts, hand workouts? What about like I’m sure you pulled a cart. 

Aaron Kong 
Probably like massaging your cartilage and your joints. Just don’t get carpal tunnel. But we really just play all day every day. Research Strategies. Kind of like there’s something called min maxing, and it’s basically you maximize the most valuable things and minimize everything else to an extent to which it’s just enough to be viable at the lowest percentage. So if you only need, like, 8% hit rating, which is like, your accuracy, if you have 12%, this is a waste of 4%. So dropping it down to 8% and maximizing another category is kind of what min maxing is. So just basically making sure your character is the best it can be and then playing that character to the best of your well, best of anyone’s abilities is the idea. 

Matt Zahab 
So Smart. I love that. Let’s jump back into crypto talk here. Cosmos Osmosis before we get into all of the good stuff, the latest updates in the ecosystem, Mesh Security, DEXes, tokenomics, the whole nine yards. Future of blockchain, interoperability and composability. I’d love if you could start with a nice little overview of the Cosmos/ ATOM and Osmosis ecosystem and what all the best teams are working on right now, what exactly its biggest value props are, why perhaps someone might want to invest or join. Give me the whole sort of 360 degree TLDR. 

Aaron Kong 
Yeah, so probably need to go through a few of those again. But Cosmos a lot of people get this confused and they think Cosmos is a coin to break it down as simply as possible. Cosmos is just a tech stack that allows other things built with the same tech stack to Interoperate with each other. So 1 real world example would just simply be think of an ecosystem around shipping ports. The shipping port in San Francisco can communicate and do business with any shipping port around the world. Not because they speak the same English language or Chinese language but because the standard of operations is all the same at all these shipping importance. They use the same cranes, they use the same containers. The ships that carry the containers, they all fit this standardized transferring method of items. Cosmos, the tech stack, especially IBC, which stands for the inner blockchain communication protocol, is built similarly where the tech stack is just interoperable with other chains that use the same tech stack. So an example would be Binance. They use this tech stack. However, they simply have chosen not to open their borders per se to other ecosystems, but they could if they wanted to. Same thing with Kronos. So Kronos you can connect to, but they don’t actually have the IBC turned on right now. But another example of an ecosystem that was Cosmos well, technically still is, but they had opened their doors, but their own internal ecosystem was booming was Terra. So, basically Cosmos is just this technology that if you build with the tech stack, you are interoperable at your choice to connect with all these other ecosystems. So, Cosmos Hub is the name of the blockchain for ATOM which is the coin of Cosmos Hub, the native coin for Cosmos Hub. And ATOM, the Cosmos Hub chain really has no special distinction other than being the first and also probably being the highest market cap that is connected to other ecosystems. So ignoring like Binance BSC or BNB. So right now there are things being developed and built on the Cosmos Hub, but this is pretty recent. So there’s ICS, which is called interchange security. And basically this is kind of similar to Mesh Security, except Mesh Security sits at a higher umbrella. And ICS, the idea sits below that basically similar to Polkadot. In Polkadot you have pair of chains, let’s say like Moonbeam. If Polkadot’s chain went down, Moonbeam is dead. Moonbeam cannot exist without Polkadot existing. So ICS has a similar model where you can launch your blockchain onto ICS and use the Cosmos Hubs validator set to power your blockchain or your ICS chain. So like something like Neutron is doing this. Now, the problem here is that if the Cosmos Hub goes down, these all go down with it. Now, the idea is that Cosmos Hub would not go down. And this is why they’re using it, is because it’s more robust, it has a stronger validator set. You don’t have to deal with your own validator set and it has higher economic security because the market cap is in the billions. So a new chain that might only have a few million dollars in market cap the security is just a few million dollars of an attack vector. So this is what ICS does. The problem with ICS right now is that it doesn’t scale in, it may not ever scale. I’m not the most technical person, so my understanding is that it doesn’t scale right now and it probably will not scale. Maybe like it can facilitate around ten. But with Mesh Security, the model for ICS can be plugged into Mesh Security. So Mesh Security can essentially just have ICS as well, and it can have bilateral security, which is the original idea. So like a NATO alliance not saying the NATO alliance model in the real world is the most perfect example because there are plenty of flaws with it. But if it was a perfect example in the real world and it functioned as it was envisioned, this would be the analogy for Mesh Security where at your choice or your chain’s choice, it can delegate a certain amount of its holdings to a different chain and it can be bi-directional. So let’s say like Osmosis wants to put 5% staking over to the Cosmos Hub and the Cosmos Hub wants to go in the other direction and put 5% over to Osmosis. So it’s staking 95% internally and then it has just this 5% crossover. And this crossover is just like this Mesh Security and gives additional economic might. But on top of that there can be the ICS model, like I said, that can be plugged into Mesh Security eventually. And this is all being built out right now, this is within this year’s scope. This is not like a dream far out years away. And then on top of ICS’s model being plugged in, there can be the EigenLayer plugged in as well, there can be Babylon’s Bitcoin restaking plugged in as well. So Mesh Security can have all types of securities from all types of economic mites. So whether it’s Cosmos Hubs, ICS model, the EigenLayer, Bitcoin restaking, all these things can be plugged in. So it’s on top of the NATO analogy, it can bring in every form of security eventually. So right now, the OGP, which is the Osmosis Grant Program, which is a SubDAO funded by Osmosis’s DAO through the community pool, they are funding it and project managing it and it’s making a lot of progress. 

Matt Zahab 
And this is Mesh Security? 

Aaron Kong 
Mesh Security, yeah. Basically Mesh Security is the end game for all security because it includes every form of security. It’s just module. So like, you can have you the original view of Mesh Security and you can just have if a new type of security is created or just magically envisioned one day and spun up, it can be plugged in or it cannot be plugged in. It’s your chain’s choice to do so. 

Matt Zahab 
I don’t know who coined this, but I love the Mesh Security’s tagline is like creating the NATO of Web3 which is yeah.

Aaron Kong 
That was Sunny’s idea. 

Matt Zahab 
It’s pretty darn good. Another point Aaron, I’d love if you could jump into is sort of the difference and the comparison between ETH/ L2 rollups and Cosmos appchains. This is something that I get all the time from not even so much people in this space, but friends and family who will see or have a friend who made a bag on ATOM. And then they will tell them, and then they’ll come to be and be like, Matt, why should I perhaps invest in the Cosmos ecosystem? Or what’s the difference between Cosmos app chains versus ETH/ L2 rollups? 

Aaron Kong 
Yeah. I don’t think I’m the greatest person at making this comparison, but my understanding from this is more externally viewed narrative wise. And I think you can see how Coinbase kind of just shifted in themselves. They got FOMO, such as like launching USDC over on was it Arbitrum or Optimism forget which one. Or maybe it was both or immediately enabling the CCTP across these things. I think it’s more narrative driven and that eventually the L2 thesis will not work. And the long term play or even midterm play. Cosmos app chains personally, but as far as like technology wise and limitations, I would probably prefer to not dive into it because I’ll probably say some wrong things. 

Matt Zahab 
No, I totally feel you. I asked you because I can’t explain this either. This is a little out of my tech stack and a little out of my pay grade, but we’re going to take a quick break and we ought to give a huge shout out to our sponsor of the show PrimeXBT. And when we get back, we’re going to talk about Osmosis in particular and how it is more than just a decentralized exchange. But until then, huge shout out to PrimeXBT, longtime friends of cryptonews.com and longtime sponsors of the Cryptonews Podcast. We love them as they offer a robust trading system for beginners and professional traders. It doesn’t matter if you’re a rookie or a vet, you can easily design and customize your layouts and widgets to best fit your trading style. PrimeXBT is also running an exclusive promo for listeners of the Cryptonews Podcast. After making your first deposit, you get 50% of that deposit credited to your trading account that can be used as bonus to additional collateral to open positions. Again, that is CRYPTONEWS50. That is CRYPTONEWS50 all one word to receive 50% of your deposit credited to your trading account. And I’ll back to the show with Aaron. Let’s jump right into Osmosis. Give us the 360 degree elevator pitch and how it’s more than just the decks. 

Aaron Kong 
Sure. So think Robin Hood, but decentralized. Think Binance and Coinbase, but decentralized. Think of everything you want to do in crypto and where you want to hold everything, where you want to trade everything, where you want to potentially use all these DeFi primitives this is the Osmosis vision. And not just to be the DeFi hub that the greatest decks in all of Crypto. And we’re sprinting at this over the next year or so, but to also be the DeFi hub that facilitates the most interoperability. One click swapping, one click trading, one click everything, one click onboarding. This is the goal because we think that the greatest UX is what’s going to win eventually. You don’t need to know that you’re using tech that is Cosmos based, you don’t need to necessarily even know that you’re using IBC. But all these technologies, all these tools, all these teams that are building on it, the one click UX is the main goal here. So everything should be seamless for the user. And this is what happens on something like Robin Hood. It’s just a seamless experience, and it should feel rewarding, and it should be. It shouldn’t feel like there’s a barrier to enter, and this is what we’re building. 

Matt Zahab 
That’s quite the tagline. Like the decentralized Binance, Coinbase, Robin Hood. Talk to me about sort of direct to consumer use cases where a user like myself wants to use Osmosis. I jump on easy peasy, no real true profile creation. It’s connected to my wallet, and I can trade how I want to with minimal points being taken from me, and the rest takes care of itself. Is that sort of accurate? 

Aaron Kong 
Yeah. So one of the greatest features that Osmosis has or anything in the Cosmos is that it has the IBC tech in it, which makes things extremely fast and cheap. So you want to do a transaction on Ethereum, you’re paying multiple dollars, if not depending on traffic times, up to $40 or $80 sometimes. This is usually 3 to 15 minutes, depending on how busy things are. But whether it’s Osmosis or other IBC related chains, these are within seconds or less than a second, and people want to see their transactions executed immediately. People don’t want to wait 15 minutes for something to happen. And even in interoperating with something like Ethereum from Osmosis, there are technologies being built right now through Axelar and Squid and other teams as well that will speed this up through their methods. I wouldn’t personally dive into how they do it, but basically they are facilitating the service to make these transactions with Ethereum almost as seamless as a native IBC protocol. But yeah, like whether you said you want to trade, if you want to execute a trade on Uniswap, it’s a lot slower. If you want to execute a trade on potentially a random siloed blockchain, maybe, let’s say Algorand, or even currently Polkadot, the liquidity is limited over there, and your interoperability is limited over there. So do you bridge out of Algorand? Well, quite frankly, I don’t know. And that’s the problem, right? This is something I should know. How do you bridge out of Polkadot? Well, right now there actually is finally coming the tech from Composable Finance, and we’re working with them right now, but they are bringing IBC to the Cosmos. So they are doing this because they know that the Polkadot ecosystem needs this Interoperability. It can’t survive on its own Algorand. Who knows what’s happened in there? I’m pretty sure it’s a little rough over there, but Interoperability is the most valuable thing in the space because liquidity may be siloed, but that is potentially irrelevant as long as everything is Interoperable at a seamless level. So, sure, if you want to bridge over from Ethereum and wait 15 minutes and spend $80 on a transaction and that’s not always, of course, but sometimes, depending on what you’re using, it could be quite expensive. You might do it once, you might do it twice, you might do it whenever you want to withdraw Fiat or add Fiat, but you’re not doing this every day, 15 times a day, or you’re not going to run a bot between the two ecosystems because it’s just too expensive. So Interoperability is one of the most pivotal players here, and on top of that, this seamless and quick and cheap Interoperability is what’s going to allow cross chain DeFi. So right now, for example, you can, let’s say, specifically in the Cosmos ecosystem, we built something called Cosmo Swap. Cosmo Swap is essentially launching Osmosis liquidity as outposts in other ecosystems. So you can take the Osmosis dex and run it on another chain with Cosmos Swap. And the reason this is possible is because the bridging and the tech and the IBC features are all there and you can do this seamlessly within seconds. And on top of that, this is just the most basic of DeFi primitives, right? Just a generic swap, one asset for another asset. But with that being a feature that exists, then you can also have features that go above that. Whether it’s like lending collateral perpetuals, these things can all exist interoperably, because with a seamless tech stack that’s almost well, I wouldn’t say like immediate, but probably within the 1 second range, it all becomes feasible. So users don’t want to care about where the liquidity is necessarily coming from or what brand this app is. They just want to execute their trades. They want to hold their assets. They want to explore what kind of DeFi degeneracy they can do without leaving one place. No one wants to click 17 times to make a single trade. No one wants to bridge and wait 30 minutes. So this is the goal, is that everything is seamless, quick, cheap, and is housed in one area. 

Matt Zahab 
How else do you think decentralized exchanges, and more specifically, Osmosis, how do you think they can compete? Or better yet, outcompete centralized exchanges? 

Aaron Kong 
So I think a lot of this is narrative driven. So right now, people this past year or these past six months, maybe eight months specifically, they have just lost a lot of trust in centralized entities. Whether it’s Genesis, Gemini, FTX, I have many personal friends and colleagues that lost a lot of money in these things and these centralized actors even like Prime Trust. Look at what’s going on there. These things are just happening day in and day out with centralized entities. And it’s kind of like baffling that they all make the same mistake somehow. Just hold your assets in a proper manner and don’t degen and YOLO your assets. Even look at SVB in the TradFi world, which obviously like lots of tech startups and crypto startups were using them, but you just can’t trust them to act properly. So whether someone doesn’t want to put all their holdings in a decentralized manner, at least diversifying, is probably a logical narrative right now. And this is the DeFi way right now. And not only are we seeing this within retail users and the crypto community, even traditional finance communities are saying this. Even see Mark Cuban tweeting about this, saying like, all these bad things that are happening to crypto are the fault of centralized entities, and not at the fault of decentralized protocols. Of course there are hiccups and hacks here and there. A lot of them are just like just bad code things that weren’t audited or just maybe insider exploits as well. 

Matt Zahab 
100%. Aaron one thing that really intrigues me is someone who’s a marketer and salesman who likes to move the needle per se. How do you steal users from centralized exchanges? How do you get whales from centralized exchanges over to decentralized exchanges? Because that’s trying to put my feet in your shoes and your team’s shoes. I know that’s something that I’d be curious to understand how you guys can do it. I’m sure you can’t share the whole playbook  but share what you can, if you don’t mind. 

Aaron Kong 
Yeah, I think some of the more common thoughts are that there is a narrative like not your keys, not your wallet. So if you hold it on a centralized exchange, it’s not yours, you don’t own it. Right? Unless somehow they’re integrated with your wallet and you’re giving them permissions. But that’s another story. On top of that centralized exchange their community is oftentimes not really there. There’s no reason for some of them to have a community. Like what is Coinbase’s community? If you want to explore options and actually take part in the growth of an ecosystem or potentially a decentralized finance hubs ecosystem like Osmosis, you get to have a say and have a voice in Osmosis. You can go to governance, you can write on the forums. And a lot of times people say like, oh, write on forums, this is like trivial, no one does that and this is irrelevant. But it’s actually incredibly relevant. And if you write on forums you get replies. The community is there. A lot of things have been swung up from the community and a lot of the growth is because of the community. So not only is this a decentralized manner where you can essentially hold your own assets and you’re trusting the code, you’re not trusting a centralized figure that may have your assets in either a hot wallet or a cold wallet storage, but you’re trusting code that is ideally robust and audited and is open source, especially. Right? So the open sourcing of Osmosis is a very big thing for Osmosis in the community and within the Cosmos there are kind of crusaders that heavily push for open source code. And you’ll see this on social media where maybe a closed source protocol is voicing some things and basically community members will say, hey, you need to open source that we’re going to vote no on it. So yeah, I think those are some of the main things as to why users would choose a decentralized exchange over a centralized exchange. Now, some of the reasons to use a centralized exchange would be probably a faster experience because it’s centralized, it doesn’t need to go through blocks, it’s not at the whim of the blockchain, it’s literally just a centralized order book. And also some people might just not care. And that’s honestly probably the biggest thing. Just don’t care. And I use both because some things are convenient and that’s fair. Some things are not convenient, but long term, I prefer DeFi. And anything short term, I still am at the whim of centralized exchanges such as going to my bank account. You still got to go through Coinbase for me because I’m based in the USA. 

Matt Zahab 
100%. No, that was very well said. Aaron you’ve been on a roll here. You have covered everything on my list. I mean, we’ve gone over a lot and it’s been a great episode. Before we let you go, any hot takes? Would you like to jump in the hot take factory, let a couple fly? It doesn’t have to be Crypto or Cosmos related or anything of the like, but we’d love to hear a couple Aaron Kong hot takes before we let you go. 

Aaron Kong 
Hot take one, people don’t care about decentralization. People just care about how much money they can make and the relative risk to it. If there’s a 0.1% risk on Coinbase and a 0.15% risk on Osmosis, but the yield difference is between 4% to 10%, no one’s going to care. People will take the 0.5% risk, any decentralized platform, or it could be vice versa as well. Right? So this doesn’t necessarily mean Coinbase is safer by any means. I mean, you look at like Prime Trust going down. You look at Coinbase or Binance even just potentially getting shut down. So probably users don’t care about decentralization. This doesn’t mean I don’t care, but I don’t think users care. And the Zealots and the Crusaders will definitely care, but this is probably 1% of the population. Most people just want the most seamless experience and they just don’t want to waste time figuring things out. And most users will have a low attention span and they will seek the easiest ecosystem out that makes onboarding as simple as possible. 

Matt Zahab 
I completely agree with you, my friend. The decentralization thing, it’s a sexy topic, but again, when it adds layers of complexity and friction to the onboarding process and just the user experience as a whole, it’s like, what do people really care about in life? Everyone wants to be healthier, they want to be happier, and they want to be wealthier. If your product or service is sort of covering those three things, that’s really all it is. And if decentralized exchange A is giving you more yield than decentralized exchange B and A might be a little bit more risky, everyone’s going to go with A. It’s just the way it goes. 

Aaron Kong 
My other hot point is, without naming any projects in particular, but most of the growth is definitely not organic. The community is not there, but it’s just straight AD spending and marketing and hype driven, but longevity and quality of projects is not there. So certain ecosystems may have billions to spend, but it’s just kind of like propped up on their amplification spending. I don’t think that might not even be a hot take.

Matt Zahab 
100%. That’s like when you see a 94 Civic with a $20,000 kit on it. We all know what’s under the hood. You know what I mean? 

Aaron Kong 
Yeah. And they are very prevalent. You just go and look at their ecosystem pages. You go look at their communities. You can also tell when the community talks about how they can contribute, what the roadmap is like, where is this growth happening? And actually learning themselves and becoming valuable members and contributors themselves, versus just, oh, how can I make more money? Hey, where’s the AirDrop? Hey, why am I not getting more yield? That’s kind of the difference that you’ll see in certain communities. 

Matt Zahab 
So true. Aaron, great episode, man. Like I said, really appreciate you coming on. Before you go, can you please let our listeners know where they can find you and Osmosis online and on socials? 

Aaron Kong 
Yes. Me personally, you can DM me on Telegram or Twitter at @aaronxkong and then Osmosis, specifically on Twitter is @osmosiszone and if you want to explore Osmosis and learn about it, we have a Telegram chat that currently has 24/7 support. So that is just @osmosis_chat and someone is always around kind of contributing and offering support and education if you need it. Also you can just go to osmosis.zone and there are some educational pieces there. You can explore the website and the app through that. And also we have some pretty big releases coming up in the next few weeks and some pretty big announcements that will happen at Osmocon, which is July 21st in Paris. If you want pretty much free tickets, just DM away. 

Matt Zahab 
Aaron’s the plug. Aaron’s going to hook you up. We love that. Aaron, thanks a lot, man. Really appreciate it and can’t wait to have you on for round two. 

Aaron Kong 
Thanks Matt. 

Matt Zahab 
Folks, what an episode with Aaron Kong from the one and only Osmosis. Him and the team are making waves and buzzing in the Cosmos ecosystem. We love to see it. Huge shout out to Osmosis and Aaron for coming on the show. To the listeners, if you guys enjoyed this one, and I hope you did, please do subscribe. It would mean the world to my team and I speak to the team. Love you guys so much. Thank you for everything. Justas my amazing sound editor. Appreciate you as always and to the listeners love you guys. Keep on growing those bags and keep on staying healthy, wealthy and happy. Bye for now and we’ll talk soon.