Obi Nwosu on Leverage Trading and Bitcoin Crash

In this episode of Cryptonews Podcast, Obi Nwosu, CEO and co-founder of Coinfloor, discusses the crypto crash of May 2021, leveraged trading, the business of Coinfloor and importance of educating people. He speaks with our podcast host Matt Zahab.

Episode timestamps:

0:00 Intro 
0:54 Crypto crash of May 2021 
14:39 Leverage trading 
17:27 What is Coinfloor 
20:21 Stacking Sats 
27:29 Poker and sports betting 
33:35 Importance of educating people 
36:04 Writing tips 
41:05 BTC as a Ponzi scheme? 
45:10 Rapid fire questions 
48:23 Outro

The episode premiered on May 21, 2021.

Listen to it on other platforms here or explore the latest episodes of the Cryptonews Podcast.

Episode transcript:

Matt Zahab: 0:09

Ladies and gentlemen, I am extremely excited to have today's guest on the show. He is the co founder and CEO of Coinfloor the UK longest running Bitcoin exchange. This gentleman also has over 20 years of experience building online marketplaces, and bringing virtual currencies to 10s of millions of people. this gentleman's mission and focus is on making it easy for anyone to learn about investing and own Bitcoin, the world's best savings technology, a true man of the people. I'm very excited to have today's guest on the show. Welcome to the crypto news podcast. Obi Wan Kenobi, welcome to the show.

Obi Nwosu:

 0:50

Thank you very much, Matt. That's a amazing introduction. I love it.

Matt Zahab:

 0:54

Thank you much appreciated. I do have a touching and a very important point that I think we should jump into first. And that is what happened yesterday. Today, we are recording on Thursday, May 20. And on Wednesday, May 19, of 2021. The absolute shitshow occurred. What happened there, we got to talk about it.

Obi Nwosu:

 1:19

I mean, if I was gonna put it into a sentence, the markets healed themselves. That's if I was going to put in a sentence, there were a number of things that prompted the sell off for want of a better word. And there are many theories. So I I'm fortunate enough to be based on what I do talk to people who are, for want of a better phrase, OGs, people who've been around in the industry for a long time. Large traders, owners, web exchanges, etc. And on the other end of the scale, you have people who are new entrants, so we see them all the time. And I always like to spend time talking to people who are new to the space. In fact, yesterday, I was just doing a panel session with people who are literally just starting in the space. And it's interesting to see from both ends of the spectrum, what people's insights and concerns and the reasons why they sold off or whether they were selling off. So some of the things we noticed was one, there is a view that some people the view that Elon Musk's comments prompted this sell off. Whether you believe this or not, there are a lot of people at both ends of the spectrum who think that's the case. Others think that it's related to a pronouncement of China in quotes, banning Bitcoin, for the I don't know, I've lost track of how many times that's happened

Matt Zahab:

 2:48

900 times

Obi Nwosu:

 2:49

Banning crypto. And that's, some people think that that was what caused the concern. Again, at both ends of the spectrum, I'm always interested in ones where both people have a similar view. And another, there was this sort of interesting story about the founder of Tron and an attempt to liquidate his apparent long position.

Matt Zahab:

 3:12

I saw that too

Obi Nwosu:

 3:12

Yeah, whichever one you believe, there was an increase in fear, and it was a sell off in the market. But what was interesting was, if you look at institutional corporate, You brought up a bunch of really good points there. The one that larger holders, they tend to to hold in fact, or accumulate during that period. So they were steadily sticking to their positions or buying more. And it tended to be newer entrants who hadn't yet gone through one of these cycles before who basical y panic sold or sold more than t ey should have done. And also, nfortunately, we still have this situation where many of the arge exchanges went offline or had reduced capacity, even f they've been in the industry f r five to eight years or mo e, and raised, umpteen amounts o money, they still seem to no be able to handle these sit ations. And now, I will say t at and tomorrow coinfloor wi l have a situation but tou hwood and I'm knocking on my he d right now. Hopefully we continue to do reasonably well in those situations, but tha makes it hard for peopl to buy the dip, and that can cause, when that happens it can cause the dips to be more pr longed. Now what was interesting was, we saw Bitcoin did have s me sell off, but it did muc better than every other crypto urrency which will highlight o people the importance and the difference of Bitcoin v rsus many of the others. And tha 's part of the painful but ongoing education process that we will continue to see. What wa interesting was that, for me as well, personally, was certa n decentralized protocols. And here are many of them. Some of t em had significant increases in osts to use and so on. ut they continued ticking while he centralized systems failed. So that was interesting. And lso, what's interesting is most f these rumors are temporary, w th Elon Musk, he keeps c anging his mind. At one poin , he said he might sell the nex point, he said, he's diamond ha ds. When people change th ir mind so frequently like that, eventually, people will i nore them, because it'll beco e noise, right? And so that's, gain, a good thing that we tart to ignore celebrities, whet er they're right or wrong, and earn to educate ourselves and m ke our own informed decisions. With the China ban, in qu tes ban, people will realize aft r the dust is settled that actually it was a reitera ion of an existing policy from 2017. So no new news. And gain, so people will unders and that as well. So we've al o now had, we've got a reduced p ice in the market. It means that people can now enter the market, they saw the price at 60k for B tcoin, for example. Now it's a 4 k. So in relative terms, if you ve got a sort of a short memo y cycle, this seems like a good time to buy in. That marke s had a chance to recover and correct. So that's the situati n we had and it's a natural part of any market and especially a market in the early stages tha we have right now with crypto and Bitcoin. I want to touch on is the price bottoming out and a lot of people rebuying. Now, I saw some FUD that institutions were looking for a much sexier price to rebuy at and 30 is a hell of a lot better than 60. Now, they do have the power to liquidate. And just like you said, the founder of Tron, who will go unnamed but supposedly had a I believe that was a billion dollar position they got liquidated. That was part of this Reddit post that I saw that was reposted on Twitter and it was from an analyst an institutional investment firm that sort of said this was going to happen. And he literally called everything verbatim. Do you think the institutions had anything to do with the sell off in regards to them wanting to drive the price down to get in at the right price point? I mean, the short answer is I don't know whether they did, but I doubt it, or else, but i doubt its the case. I do think that many people did get liquidated. In the case of the founder of Tron. I don't think that happened in that case, based on information I have. But I cannot confirm whether there was an attempt to do that. What I can say is the markets still pretty young, it's still possible for a tweet or a large holder to move the price for short periods of time. Which is why unless you really know what you're doing, or you have inside information, which is fewer and fewer people into in the case of inside information these days, you should think about this from a long term perspective. And then from a long term purpose, if you have a long term mindset, you're shielded from all of these short term fluctuations. And in fact, you can use that long term thesis to know when there's an opportunity like this, because you can have the confidence when everybody else is, when there is blood on the floor and everybody else is running. You can step in and take action.

Matt Zahab:

 9:07

PTSD keep hoddling baby. Another point you brought up was the exchanges going down. This almost screams Robin Hood, this was back in, you know, January and February of this year when GameStop and AMC and all of those stocks went to the moon and then ripped all the way back down because you had a company like Robin Hood, who was only enabling the sell button and the buy button was offline. This is the same thing that happened yesterday. Or worse than that exchanges were just fully offline no buying no selling. And you had coin Gecko coin market cap, you couldn't even check your shit coins. I was scrambling around in the morning going coin Gecko to check on how my younger boys and gals are doing and I could not even see what was happening. A little bit of a panic mode, but we're all good. What can exchanges and major crypto companies do in the future to make sure that doesn't happen? Seems like the easy answer would be invest more in infrastructure technology, so on and so forth. But for someone like me, who doesn't have too prominent of a technological background, what's the right answer to fix this?

Obi Nwosu:

 10:09

Yeah, I mean, and to be fair, running an exchange, it's a much more difficult problem than it seems to be. And so there is, the most exchanges deal with multiple cryptocurrencies. And we have taken the approach of only dealing with Bitcoin, that makes our infrastructural technical problems to solve much, much simpler, right. And so it's easier for us to be able to handle situations like this when there's so many less variables. The other thing is when these things happen, the increases in demand are not just 10% 20%, they're 10x 50x. And it's very difficult to architect systems that can handle a growth in usage in a matter of minutes by, you know, more than an order of magnitude. Generally, that's a very difficult thing to do. And most other organizations don't experience that maybe, for example, a broadcasting company, at the time of a major American football match might see this massive increase in demand for their services right, once or twice a year, but, but they know that in advance, and they can, they can ramp up in advance for that, and they can have people in the office ready for that demand. Whereas with crypto, its a weekend, you're going to sleep and then all of a sudden there's a 10x increase in demand with zero notice. So it's a nearly intractable problem. That being said, there's more that can be done. And I'm sure that all of these exchanges are working hard to do that. Separate though to that is the fact that the demand for, whether you like them or love them, the demand for alt coins, or shit coins, or the most extreme, the news, diarrhea coins that are coming out. The demand for those is going to increase exponentially. As long as fear exists, fear of missing out and greed and the desire to get the sort of ape like returns that these people have seen other people get. Even though people are being educated, and we're going to continue to educate. Even though people understand that many of these are, are going to crash and burn and only a few will succeed. We are seeing that people still keep wanting to trade them. And so even though we don't allow them to trade on our exchange for the reasons that we will probably come into later in this conversation, it's going to continue to happen. And as such, eventually, it's going to grow beyond centralized exchanges. Centralized exchanges have to curate, review, it's centralized. Eventually, it becomes this choke point and the demand for these coins, just like the demand for websites eventually goes beyond one company like an AOL or an Yahoo's ability to list and it will become a decentralized offering that centralized offerings will be the only way to handle these in a scalable way. And so for the crypto to crypto alt coins to alt coin trading stuff that eventually will be solved by different organizations and these will be solved by the crypto equivalent of the web browser, or some sort of decentralized software that you install yourself and you trade yourself. That's what I predict will happen. Leaving fear to crypto as the main main job of centralized exchanges. And given that that thesis we've already just moved straight to that we allow you to buy bitcoin and once you bought your Bitcoin, you can hold it with us hold yourself because not your keys, not your coin. And we educate people around that. Or you can take some of it. Ideally a very small percentage or zero, but we can't stop you from doing that. But you take some of it and trade it with, trade it or do whatever you want to do with it in it but in a decentralized manner, where you're not beholden to the almost impossible scaling requirements for a centralized exchange.

Matt Zahab:

 14:39

Interesting. Before we enter Coinfloor, I have one last question about sort of almost LARPing and ape size returns if you will, and that is leverage trading. I, myself, I've only done it once and I got a little lucky and that was good enough for me. I got my toes in the water. Didn't really like the feeling too much and that is that for me. What's your take on that? I have buddies who are doing like 3x 5x 10x like couple sickos are doing 100x. Like, what? Like, what's going on in your head to go 100x long on some.

Obi Nwosu:

 15:14

I mean, if you're going 100x, you're starting to see this as in your mindset, it's probably a similar to the mindset of what's going on when you go to a casino or you go to a horse race, and you bet. It's starting to become basically gambling at that stage, because a tiny movement in the wrong direction, and you can be wiped out. But on the other hand, if luck would have it, it goes in your direction, you can make these outsized returns. So that sounds like close to gambling in terms of mindset. So the mindsets are very similar there. And gambling is an industry that's gone on for a very long period of time and that mindset is appealing to some people. If you're putting in small amounts, going to a horse race, dressing up having a nice day out, and spending the same amount of money that you would have spent going out partying, that's fine. But if you're putting your life savings into it, that can be a problem. So it does fulfill it. It's, as you say, it's not a nice feeling but some people can think of that feeling as exhilarating, you know that taking some risk. And so there is a separate sector of people who find it interesting. But it is very risky and for the vast majority of people, they shouldn't go anywhere near that. And given that we are at the beginning of such an incredible revolution. Something that will at least mimic the growth of the internet and the web. It you don't need to take that level of risk to have a meaningful sort of impact to your stores of value investments by just buying effectively shares in this incredible technology in this incredible movement, philosophy. Everything that that's involved in Bitcoin by itself.

Matt Zahab:

 17:27

Well said, let's jump into Coinfloor. You and the team have made some incredible moves and have really, really dominated and educated a lot of the crypto masses especially Bitcoin as that is your bread and butter. I'll leave this open ended and the floor is yours. Please tell our listeners a little more about Coinfloor.

Obi Nwosu:

 17:48

Well, thank you. So Coinfloor, as you mentioned, is the longest running Bitcoin exchange. And we were founded in 2013. And at that time, you really didn't have a choice you were Bitcoin only because pretty much only Bitcoin was in any significant way traded. And that was good because it allowed us to understand and internalize the philosophy behind Bitcoin. Now, over time, more cryptocurrencies appeared. Some of them have attempted to build their own philosophies, and with greater or lesser success, but what's become clear over the years is the power of the original philosophy of Bitcoin. And that original philosophy is like a shield against any form of attempt to take your wealth from you. And if you internalize the idea of not your keys, not your coins, don't trust verify. These are lessons which forget other cryptocurrencies, the entire existing financial system that we have today, has spent a lot of efforts to make you forget. They tell you don't trust yourself, trust a third party. Don't store things yourself and work out how to manage your own funds, leave it to us. Now, effectively trying to get us to the point where we generate all this value in the world, and then we don't learn how to look after that value. And the core philosophies of Bitcoin do the exact opposite. And it's because of that reason our mission has expanded not just to allowing people to purchase cryptocurrency, but instead purchase the most important cryptocurrency, the most impactful cryptocurrency, which is Bitcoin, and also educate people about Bitcoin, about the sector as a whole, but about the philosophies behind Bitcoin. This is beyond money. This is philosophy for life and many of these elements. And we think it's really important to share that with people and as a result, we get incredible responses from the community. And we feel very blessed to be in a position where we can share that information with the community and the world.

Matt Zahab:

 20:21

So Coinfloor has a multitude of really cool products. My favorite that I really want to get into is autobuy, I think, yeah, let's let's start with autobuy. Exactly like it sounds like you set up a wire transfer, bank transfer, and Bitcoin automatically is purchased, as you know, funds, whatever fiat currency you're using, is wired from your bank accounts to Coinfloor, who then purchases Bitcoin, whether that be SATs or if you're a sicko for bitcoins on your behalf. And it's just you keep accumulating, accumulating and accumulating? How did that idea come to fruition? And could you if I did not explain that correctly? Could you please walk me through exactly how that works?

Obi Nwosu:

 21:03

Well, first of all, the explanation was really good. And we'll talk afterwards how you can potentially come to work for us because that explanation was amazing. But being serious, we first made the big step of being Bitcoin only and going Bitcoin on it. That was the big step. After that, we wanted to make the process of investing as simple as possible. And we allow with the auto buy product, two ways of investing, you can still just buy a series of single one off purchases, Bitcoin. But even when you're doing that, the process is radically simpler than many other sites. Normally, you have to go and register after you've registered and signed up, you then would transfer a certain amount of money from your bank account to the exchange or the crypto company, then you'd have to select from a whole set of cryptocurrencies, which ones you want to buy and then you have to then buy the selection to buy those. So there's multiple steps with what we do, if you want to make a single purchase, for example, we reduce it down to two steps, you sign up and we are making the signup process as simple as we possibly can. And there's a number of announcements that we're making in the coming few weeks around making that as simple as possible for our users, or new users. Because even though you only do it once, it's your first experience the registration process, and we want to make that simple. And then after that one step, the next step is you log in, you effectively get the payment details for where you want to send the money to to buy and send money to that address. And given that we know that you're sending money to our address to buy bitcoin, we automatically purchase it for you mail you notify you when it's being purchased at the market rate. And then add it to your balance. So all of those into separate steps will be merged into one step of sending an automatically buying. The other thing that you can do is you can take it a step further. And you can set up a standing order, which is a recurring payment from your bank. So you just log into your bank app and set up a recurring payment, or call them up and set up a recurring payment with the same details and every time the payment comes through, it will do the same, automatically buying for you. Which means that you can do something known as dollar cost averaging or in the UK will be called pound cost averaging. International term is dollar cost averaging. Now, this is really interesting because you can trade and trading is fun. But when we've looked at eight years of history, when we've analyzed what people have done, and it's not just on our exchanges, it's exchanges in general. The interesting story is this, for the vast majority of people, dollar cost averaging would have performed better than their attempts at trading. In fact, even professional traders, what are considered professional traders, more than half of them would have done better than by just dollar cost averaging than professional trading. Now there are some professional traders who do better than dollar cost averaging, who are spending many hours looking at charts, analyzing news and and creating relationships to give them insider information so that they can perform better than that. But the simplest way of trading performs better than almost every other technique for the majority of the time, which is dollar cost average. You can't get simpler than that because after you have a standing order, you never need to do anything again. And that's taking trading, buying down to once to zeros.

Matt Zahab:

 25:11

That's the famous compound interest chart that they always show you in school and in uni and heck, even as an adult, when you go to the bank. You know, Matt and Obi put in, Matt puts in $1 at, you know, 2013 and Obi puts in $10 in 2017, who's gonna have more money at the end of the day, if they invested in Bitcoin? Probably Matt, because I started earlier, and I kept, you know, stacking the whole way up. That's how it works. And you guys have put a solution to that. I just, I look back at that and when I was doing research for this, and I saw that that was a product that you had on the platform, I was like, oh, man, why didn't someone teach me about this back in 2013, or 2017.

Obi Nwosu:

 25:50

And the funny thing is, if Matt's money in 2013, but starts actively tried to trade it, and Obi's money in later on, but starts dollar cost averaging or pound cost averaging, it may well be that Obi ends up with more, because it's consistently going up. And if you have these temporary peaks in price, you're buying all the way up, but also you buy as it goes down, but it averages out so that dips don't affect you so badly. And your price ends up being the average of the peaks in the trough. So IE, a smooth line, if you know history of Bitcoin, smooth, a relatively smooth line just rising over time. And that's just a really powerful idea and we want to get that idea out. And it's not just us, we would welcome seeing other exchanges offering and promoting this offering. The problem is it doesn't fit their objectives of getting people to trade as much as possible. And so they trade as much as possible between one crypto to another. We don't have that sort of crutch, we're able to say to tell people the facts that dollar cost averaging performs very well for most people, compared to any other approach. And also, for most people holding Bitcoin is the best one to choose, especially as we saw yesterday, when the price does eventually at times sell off. Bitcoin invariably does better.

Matt Zahab:

 27:29

Folks, you get paid bi weekly, monthly, weekly heck daily, whatever the case may be, take it a little small chunk of that paycheck, throw it into bitcoin through your DCA and the rest will take care of itself. Do not gamble. However, if you do want to gamble, you should check out our friends at coin poker. You know, they are the sponsor of the crypto news podcast. I absolutely love these guys. They're incredible. They're the world's premier crypto poker platform. And they are a blockchain technology based platform that was developed by an ambitious team of poker lovers and sports gamblers. They use USDT stable coin as the main in game currency and $CHP as in game fuel, tons of benefits for everyone who plays they offer very quick fast and instant secure transactions using USDT Ethereum. Bitcoin, $CHP you name it best part as I've said many times no KYC. Literally you sign up and you're dancing, you're ready to go. They also have a mobile app and a sports book. As you guys know, I love a little bit of sports gambling on the side not too much but a little bit of sports gambling, never hurt anybody. If you are safe and cautious about it, which I am. There's also Texas Hold'em just an incredible app and I highly recommend you using it and giving a tries they also give away 1000s and promotions every single week, folks that is coin poker.com go and check them out. Obi, before we jump back into it you gamble at all? You play poker? You ever dabbled in any of that?

Obi Nwosu:

 29:00

Yeah, I've played poker, we had in the UK, a crypto poker tournament where a few nice people in the crypto space would connect up, would go to one of the famous casinos here in London and have a go. There were a couple of charity crypto poker tournaments in the middle of the pandemic last year, which I also got involved with. To be honest, I'm not the best poker player but I enjoy it. It's fun. If I do it, I'm doing it with an amount that I'm prepared to lose. I see as the money I'd spend. If I was going to go on an evening out and spend some time with friends etc. So that way if it does return and I get a great return, great, but if not, I get entertainment. And I would have paid for entertainment anyway. It's a battle of minds, especially with poker. It's really interesting about human nature and seeing that there's so many different styles in which people can play the game. It seems deceptively simple, but it's actually incredibly complex.

Matt Zahab:

 30:27

Well said. And on the sport side. You're in London heck you gotta be a football guy. No?

Obi Nwosu:

 30:35

Football. Yeah.

Matt Zahab:

 30:36

Who's your team?

Obi Nwosu:

 30:37

Well, you won't know them. They're called Queens Park Rangers. They're more of a team.

Matt Zahab:

 30:41

I don't live under a rock. I know Queens Park Rangers, I know that.

Obi Nwosu:

 30:46

I was born in West London. And they were my local team. And they were one of the few teams that would give away free tickets to anyone in the local area, under a certain age to go and see so I always appreciated that and as a result, I've been a fan and resisted any urge to switch to some of the more famous UK and London teams

Matt Zahab:

 31:12

You're loyal. Not a band Waggoner. I love it.

Obi Nwosu:

 31:16

Not a bandwagon. And that's really interesting, because like with Bitcoin, I've chosen Bitcoin, just from logic and analysis. I've reviewed the white paper, I've analyzed what it does, I look at other cryptocurrencies. And time and again, I reconfirm in my mind, the logic for why it still makes sense. And I think that any thing that you do should be constantly be willing to test and retest it. And its the same for going back to Queens Park Rangers, there was a very simple logic for why I suppported them. One, they're really passionate, the teams, the supporters are really passionate, but also the way they supported their community was something they thought was really powerful. And so I wanted to support them back and that was my logic and I think that many other larger teams didn't have that same attitude. And it's all about community and you're effectively as a football team almost like the soldiers the gladiators for your local community and represented them on the field of battle, which is the football pitch. And so if the guy is supporting you, you should support them and not a team the other side of the world where, you know, you support Manchester, but you've never even been in the city. That doesn't make sense to me.

Matt Zahab:

 32:49

That's my favorite part about football overseas, especially in Britain is just the fans like just purebred nutcases, every one of I absolutely love it. Again, I'm from Toronto. I'm a huge hockey guy. That's my favorite sport. But I've been to football games in Europe, I've been to, you know, American football, games, hockey, baseball, soccer, you know, you name it I've been to all of and then there's nothing, literally nothing like a European football match. It is something special. Obi, let's just jump right back into Coinfloor. Again, you guys have an incredible array of products. You have the autobuy the custody, and for the advanced traders, you have the trading platform OTC, the API, the corporate accounts, the Fiat account and the Bitcoin audit. But one thing I really want to discuss is how much you and the team put into the education aspect. You have an incredible guide on the website, Coinfloor.co.uk. And you also write every single week. I've read a bunch of your articles on BTC times.com. Clearly, you know, your shit, you are a good writer. Tell me about the importance of producing content and teaching the people ,that is part one. And Part two is how does one become a better writer because clearly you know what you're doing and you'd like doing it.

Obi Nwosu:

 34:08

So first of all, the importance of education, it's core to everything we do. And over time, we plan to do more of it. For too long, we didn't do much. We were silent. We had work behind the scenes, we would be at conferences and talks and giving our views, but not being public about it. And about a year or so ago, it was actually beginning of 2020 I believe, actually longer than that now actually, we decided that we were going to be more public about our opinions for the space. And it started with creating this section of our sites, we call it monetary re-education because we've been educated incorrectly about money we believe, and we need to start this process to re-educate. Stepping up the podcasts and so on we do. And then last year, I started writing weekly for, I was invited to write for BTC times and I for write a few articles. And I wrote one, and then the following week there was another. I never have any end date as to when I will stopped. But as long as I continue to enjoy it, then I continue to do that. And it's not just me, we're now my co director Taky has just starting off writing articles as well. She's just recently published one for Bitcoin magazine, which is another periodical and again, I'm hoping that she will, she has a very different slant of things than me a very different focus, but it's just as valid and just as interesting. And I'm hoping that she will continue that. But again, she will continue as long as she's excited and enthused about it.

Matt Zahab:

 36:04

Quick question here about about the writing process, because I'm very curious about that. Walk me through it, like do you open up a Google doc and start with research and then sort of make a stencil and then edit and edit and edit and publish? Walk me through step one to step 10.

Obi Nwosu:

 36:19

So high level. And firstly, it's changed and it's become, you start to form a pattern, we've got a pattern here. Also, I benefit from and I rely upon trusted advisors, and editors, people I respect and their ability to write great prose, great words, to review what I do and adjust and help me correct my message. But high level, the way it starts is that I'm constantly for example, in my case, and it's gonna be different for Taky, you'll have to ask her for her process, but I'm constantly reviewing what's happening in a given week. And that's not work for me, that's just my passion. I'm always reading up on what's happening. I'm always talking to people about it. And at the end of the week, you just step back and look at what's happened this week, and what's an interesting message to talk about, but I have certain rules of thumb in my case. I try to avoid the articles that are purely just talking about price movements 20% up 10% down, I almost never talk about that, unless it's highly relevant, but it will be to a bigger point. And I also, my fundamental thesis is that we're heading towards this point where Bitcoin we have a hegemony, where Bitcoin is the world reserve asset. And so I look at what stories or trends happened in the last week, which indicators or signs of this part of our movement towards greater hegemony. I haven't decided what it will be for this week. But one contender could be the fact that with all of this sell off, Bitcoin still did really well. And what does that tell us? What does that tell us about the fundamentals of Bitcoin versus other cryptocurrencies, for example, that might not be what actually talked about, but it will always have some link to that. I won't go into the specifics of the price action its more, what does it mean philosophically? And how does that help us build confidence in this process happening? So I get that sort of fundamental core idea as a sort of snapshot to begin with. And then I would write some notes about it. And when I write some notes about it, then we go away, and I effectively fill that out. Now in terms of the style, what I found works really well for me is to start forming a style. I found what works I found what people respond to. And that's the advantage of doing it for a three quarters of a year now. I think, this week could be article number 40. And I realized what people respond to what I enjoy writing about the style I like, and it sort of starts to have a structure where for example, my structure is I have a title, I want to make the title interesting and short. And I have an intro to the story to set the scene. I like to use a lot of stories telling and so on or analogies, a little bit of referencing, reference to history slightly, not too much, but some interesting pieces of information which people can click and find out more about and then I start to explain the core idea I want to get across and then finally, I like to end with this rousing and reminding you bringing it back to the original point and also getting the troops, the Bitcoin Jedi's ready to fight the next battle. And that's the style that works for me. But I think everybody needs to find that style. And it's good to get into a pattern because then people know how to read. It's a bit like an intuitive UX or UI. If it's consistent, then people know what to expect from your story. You know what to expect, it gets easier and easier to write.

Matt Zahab:

 40:38

Whenever I read your stuff, for me, it's like three parts. It's like one part CEO, one part football coach, and like one part philosophy. That's like sort of how I see it, like it doesn't like fire me up per se, but like, so motivating. But it's also you know, that philosophy behind it. And you also have that, it's like he clearly knows his stuff and like it's motivating. So I don't know, that's just how I read it. But, again, I love them and I appreciate you going through that. Thank you. A couple rapid fire questions. And I'm going to start by asking about a couple things that you've touched on in your articles for the BTC times, the bill Meyer tomato, tomato, however you pronounce his name, the late night talk show host, very famous in the US famous around the world. He talks about BTC being a Ponzi scheme on his late night talk show, it's sort of went viral, he made a big, you know fuss about it. And you had your two cents about that. I'd love for you to reiterate those two cents.

Obi Nwosu:

 41:32

Yeah. The simple summary is that he's making the mistake that many people do, and not understanding what the purpose of money is. And effectively, he's following this bandwagon, which many people, many other people have done. So we've seen, in the case of Elon Musk, he made these comments about the energy use of Bitcoin. In the case of Bill Mayer, he's making these comments saying that if you come in later, you're going to make less than someone else who comes in earlier. But this is effectively the case for all investments with that logic you shouldn't invest in Amazon and Tesla in any fast rising tech stock. But somehow, it generally belies a concern about a new technology that operates in a way that's different to anything else that's out there. And that assumption of there must be foul play. And that's not the case here. The reality is, is that someone has solved a problem around money, which is the ability to store value, and transfer value at a distance of parties that you don't trust. And that's an incredibly valuable problem to understand. The problem is that, at the beginning of few people understand the significance of that problem, and the implications of it. Once it's materialize, and it's very clear to everybody, the opportunity is gone. And as realization of the opportunity increases over time, the opportunity reduces. And so that's simply it, what you're seeing is that the early people in the space, the people that he refers to, as the effectively be instigators, the architects of the Ponzi aren't actually that. They're simply people who were lucky enough to have the time and knowledge and connections to be able to see this opportunity earlier, and invest in it. And but here's the point and here's the not so secret secret, we're all still incredibly early. Everybody who's heard of this, and now, most people, at least in the Western world, have heard of cryptocurrencies and have heard of Bitcoin. You're still really early. You just have to make a choice and be fortunate enough not to have friends who are going to give you the incorrect information based on their incorrect information. Because that can sometimes prevent you from seeing the opportunity. But don't trust, verify. Try to yourself go forward and look through and understand from a base and there's so much education resources out there that are designed to be very simple to understand. Understand yourself and form your own view as to whether or not this thing is a Ponzi is an energy sink or actually, in my view, doesn't in fact, waste energy but helps save energy. It does. It isn't a Ponzi scheme, but in fact, it's just accumulating value as people move value from other less efficient stores of value to it.

Matt Zahab:

 45:10

Not your keys, not your coins, how many times has that been tattooed on human beings around the world over under 1000?

Obi Nwosu:

 45:20

I think its, I would hope it's over 1000. Although I'm not a holder of tattoos myself, but hope is over 1000

Matt Zahab:

 45:28

I can't wait. I've seen a Bitcoin tattoo on someone before. But imagine like someone takes off their shirt to like jump in a pool or the ocean or the lake or whatever.

Obi Nwosu:

 45:38

I think it should be tattooed in people's minds in their philosophies. And again, I think just incentives are going to, what's really interesting is incentives are going to cause that to happen more and more. I think for your core Bitcoin storage, there will always be some people who would want some of it stored in a way where maybe it's in a multi signature mechanism, which basically means that they have one or more of the keys, and someone else has one or more of the keys, who they can work together to make transactions. So that's where custody can be shared. But as some people become confident and comfortable with custody in themselves, and they will custody that themselves, and they'll... but there will always be some people who would want to delegate the custody to someone else. But the reality is until you're custodying yourself, it's not your Bitcoin. And so taking the time to learn to be comfortable with that is a very, very important thing that most people should do

Matt Zahab:

 46:48

When an if or Bitcoin had 100k.

Obi Nwosu:

 46:52

I don't give predictions publicly. I give predictions privately. But I don't give predictions publicly what I...

Matt Zahab:

 47:02

Come on, give the people what they want.

Obi Nwosu:

 47:04

And I think it's a probability based thing. I think that there is still a significant possibility that it doesn't make... I still think that we're in likely to be a cycle right now. So I think there's a significant possibility that it doesn't make 100k. But I think most people think that there's a good chance that this time round, they could get above 100k. And I still think this view is still the case. However, this is not investment advice. And I think the best way to handle it is to be in a view set where it doesn't matter. And the only way it doesn't matter is if you're dollar cost averaging, you're buying regularly because then if it doesn't reach 100k you are still accumulating all the way up. And if it does reach 100k you're accumulating above that as well. And you just don't need to think about it.

Matt Zahab:

 48:04

Last question. Who is Satoshi?

Obi Nwosu:

 48:06

We are all Satoshi.

Matt Zahab:

 48:08

Come on you gotta give me one name. Give me someone

Obi Nwosu:

 48:11

That's the answer. Yo 're Satoshi, your viewers are S toshi. Satoshi at this stage i a mindset. And that's who it s.

Matt Zahab:

 48:23

Haven't heard that one before. I like that. Obi, th s has been an absolute treat. o glad we finally got to connec . I learned a lot and I'm sure o r guests did too. Before we l t you go, could you please let s know where we can find you a d Coinfloor on socials?

Obi Nwosu:

 48:38

So Coinfloor, it's at Coinfloor on Twitter and our we site Coinfloor.com and Coinf oor.com.uk. And soon our mobil app you can download as well f om Android and iOS stores And then myself personally, the easiest is Twitter. And it's b cause I was early to Twitter. t's at Obi.

Matt Zahab:

 49:10

I was gonna say, ou sniped the very rare three le ter Twitter domain, not

Obi Nwosu:

 49:14

Yeah. But that also s ows my age.

Matt Zahab:

 49:19

As you said earlier, you're one of the OGs. One of he original gangsters. Obi, it as an absolute treat having you on. Thank you so much. Hope yo had a blast and would love to have you on for round two in th future.

Obi Nwosu:

 49:29

It was a lot of fu . Thanks for that Mat

Matt Zahab:

 49:31

Appreciate it. Folks, this is the cryptonews odcast with Obi from Coinf oor. I had a blast listening t this one. I hope you did as w ll. I learned a lot and I'm s re you did too. If you enjoyed t is one, please subscribe. It m ans the world to us. We are on a l major podcast platforms. A ple, Spotify, Google Amazon, o ercast Stitcher, you name it, w 're there. Check us out on c ypto news.com. We will be back e ery Monday, Wednesday and F iday morning. As always, we a preciate you, we love you and k ep on stacking and we will see y u shortly. Have a great rest o the day and we'll keep in t uch. Bye.